Table is your typical 1/2 terribads, but the villain was a thinking player. He at least was thinking about what his opponents had.

Hero is CO with KK

Villian is HJ. Hero has $400, Villain has $290.

UTG+1 raises to $11, MP calls $11, folds to Vil/HJ, 3-bets to $35, Hero/CO 4-bets to $100. Folds to Vil/HJ who 5-bets $290 all-in.

Hero calls ???

The conventional wisdom is to get it in with cowboys pre, but I'm thinking that 3-bets at this 1/2 table are rare, 4-bets even rarer. When I 4-bet, he has to put me on a hand like AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK/AQs. He also has to figure that I have no hand I'm going to 4-bet fold.

So when he shoves here, is AK or QQ *ever* in his range? Would JJ be trying to fold out the equity of an AQ or AK type hand? We're pretty deep, too, 145BB effective.

Obviously he had aces, but what I'm trying to do is not be results oriented here. I could use some people with more experience playing live 1/2.

I think QQ is often in the range but i think AK is not. Most of the 1/2s group QQ, KK, and AA all together. I don't though.

You are right that deciding if QQ or AK is ever in his range is the important decision here. After that it's simple math. It's $190 to win a pot that is $412. So calling given a coin flip is correct. If you put QQ or AK in his range then call, if both then you are ahead. If villain has any bluffs in his range then call, but a lot have no bluffs.

If AK/QQ are in his range depends on villain. Depending on villain I might consider this anything from an easy fold to easy call. Given your description I would lean towards fold but I could go either way.

What about against an unknown at 1/2 live?

Against a thinking 1/2 player as you describe V, what does he think you are cold 4! with? My guess is AA/KK/QQ in a 1/2 game, which probably means he thinks he is ahead of that range if he is pushing all in. I couldn't fold KK here, but I think it is the right play.

Any history (tonight or previous?) with the villain? You have position on him, have you been 3 betting or raising his open/limps? Perhaps he feels picked on?

A lot of 'thinking' villains (in my game, it seems) discount raises from late position. He may not assume your range is only QQ+.

In game, I probably call. I have folded KK (correctly) in position, but only post-flop, after a 4-bet pre-flop and a bet/3-bet on a Q hi flop.

Against an unknown but apparently thinking opponent at 1/2 you are in guess work territory. As I said above I would lean fold but it's entirely a live read.

all dep on what V's 3 bet hands are. if he's insanely tight, i may 4 bet smaller, with the intention of folding bc you think his 5 bet AI is always AA. maybe 4 bet to $80 if you think shoves with all better and can call with worse.

def some V's will shove AK here and some will only do it with AA, KK.

as played, you can't fold given you already put in $100, and its $190 more to call.

Why even get so aggravated for 145bb in 1/2 game, ($290)?

If effective would be like 300bb or more I would give you the entire play for KK. But for 145bb there's nothing much you can do but to shove. When you 4bet the entire table you should know in advance what's gonna be your play.

Yep, when I 4-bet, my intention was to snap-call a 5-bet shove. This is after-the-fact analysis... that is, was my plan for the hand even good to begin with?