Obviously call the river. The price is too good. fwiw, I don't expect to win this at showdown when he bets $25. But one thing we do know: He's a losing player if he shows up with anything that beats you.

Anyone ever raising the flop here?

It's almost never a raise, but an obvious call. You flatted flop/turn barrel, so villain can easily put you on a busted FD and in his mind he's making a thin value bet with a hand like QT, QJ or KQ.

I personally don't like the PF flat, i much rather 3b and define his range and make life tougher for villain OOP and make an easier decision on the turn/river...

Pre depends on how often he iso's from the blinds, obv. It seems live regs are much less likely to iso from the blinds, so we're often going to be playing against a strong range with bad relative position in mid position of a multiway pot. In that case, it's going to be very difficult to win the pot without a made hand postflop.

Against players who are vastly more aggressive pre than your usual live reg, it's a trivial call.

As for postflop, if we're folding anywhere, it's the turn. If villain has air and QT/JJ type hands going into the river, then I would expect him to bet those hands this amount every once in a while (air as a stab once all the draws missed; other hands as a blocking bet). If he doesn't have those hands going into the river, then we should've folded to the turn bet.

Guys sorry, yes river is pretty much is a snap call, and yes post really should have been written as:

and yes and as Vince says fold or raise pre

please stop posting call

Why do we insist on 3-betting hands that have value and can allow us to win a big pot? You raise to $30. He makes it $120. You fold. You've lost $30.

You call $10 ... and flop big ... and win a monster pot. Against the generic $1/$2 player who can't fold? I'm OK with calling with hands like this. Especially in position.

Yes, we're playing a guessing game on this board. But we're also managing to play a smallish pot with just TP.

I know I'm going to get flamed for saying calling pre is OK, but in the GAMES I PLAY IN, you are better off with that route.

I'm with you. I don't understand why a 3bet is mandatory here especially when we ended up in a HU situation with position on our villain.

I don't think the difference in EV between calling and 3betting is anything substantial. The reason I would probably 3bet here is to push out the limpers and because the guy is raising too many hands PF and you are more likely to get him to fold his weaker range (A-rag, 22, etc.) But a call isn't as terrible as everyone is making it seem.

Well if he has A-rage, 22, then calling's absolutely fine. I just think live players tend to HEAVILY lean toward flatting here with hands like QT, 66, 87s instead of iso'ing a million limpers, so we're never ahead preflop, and stealing the pot post is going to be difficult because of our relative/absolute position against a strong range (often like AT+, KJ+, 88+) and players likely behind us (once we call, players are getting 3:1 to see a flop IP).

Again, online this is usually a trivial call because players tend to play more aggressively preflop, but live (unless I'm seeing this player iso'ing T8o in the CO or something) players tend to be happier just seeing a flop getting a good price with a playable hand.

I would be fine with calling, but that is because I see the reasons for calling as:

QJ is:

[X] A really good speculative hand and villain raising $8 with $240 behind gives me good odds to call.
[X} A Hand that plays well in multiway pots and a call keeps the limpers in.

Because of the Above, I am never folding in position with QJ with stack sizes like this for a 4BB raise.

Now for a question for those that advocate raising.

1) Raise to what amount?
2) What plan do I have on a flop that misses completely
a) dry flop
b) flop with A or K
c) flop with 3 's
3) What is the purpose of the raise? (get heads up, put more money in, take control, cause we think we have the best hand, choose any/all and add your own).

I think I have significant leaks in that I play pre-flop and post-flop differently. I have to either be less aggressive pre-flop (pay to hit hard and THEN push) or more aggressive post-flop (Be willing to play big pots with TPTK or overcards with backdoors).

So for me, I see a raise preflop as getting into a big pot with a medium holding. You say plan for the turn. But I gotta know how to plan for the flop here. ALL help is appreciated.

With that stack? Put villain all-in on the river. The size of his river bet screams weakness more than value. Most of the time, he'll fold both worse hands and medium strength hands you beat. Sometimes he'll call with a better hand. Occasionally, he'll call with worse like JJ, 89, or QT.

VS

Do people really bet two streets then dumb bet JJ here? I played around with Flopzilla for a while thinking about this hand, what do we think his range is?

I came up with:
88+, A7s+, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s
A9o+, KTo+, QJo

I mean 2 limpers and he's out of position I think that's reasonable. I came up with this:

On the river:
Value:
AA, KK, QQ, 88 (16)
AQ, KQ (16)
Bluffs:
FD: A7dd, A9dd, ATdd, AJdd, KJdd, KTdd, J9dd, T9dd (8) SD: JT (2) (10)
AK (16)
26 combos we beat, QJ (6) tie, 32 beat us

16 if he doesn't play AK like that. I think the question is how often do people dumb-bet the river with a bluff? I don't think that often... but he really only needs 7 combos we beat for us to call.

I don't see why this is a 3-bet preflop?

call, i actually c 1/2 fish players 3 small barrels with mid pair good kicker from time to time lol

I don't like a shove. Villain could level himself into thinking hero had busted diamonds. Trying to move bad players off of top pair or better is generally not a good idea, especially when they've invested a decent amount of money in the hand already.

Info like this is excellent in deducing what type of player and their playing style they have.

Being Hispanic and his betting pattern would be a a clue to tell me that he is very well versed in betting/gambling.

As a general thumb rule, ethnic minorities are more well versed in betting/gambling than the average European.

Some types of people are easier to play with than others.

I am more cautious playing Vietnamese people than playing a European due to Vietnamese tend to be more skilled than there European counter parts at stuff like this.

I know this via personal experience through playing different varieties of card games with them.

They make PROP BETS the poker players make childs play!!!!

ps: they helped me become the awesome card player I am today.

The answer is because 3 betting is cool and one of the current poker trends of todays poker world.

When 3 betting I ask myself
Am I 3 betting to steal the pot?
Am I 3 betting for value?
Am I 3 betting for info?

My first guess was top pair with J or K kicker, I am now leaning more towards the J kicker.

I can't get a very clear read and I have learnt in situations like this, either you have got the opponent beat or they have got you beat or you are both holding similar starting cards.

I would say he has also two pair and the likely scenario is he has the higher two pair, due to his betting pattern.

In your position I would be torn between calling and raising $25 and see what happens.

When someone keeps on raising me a consistent amount, I find it hard to resist to raising that person with the same amount as this is a way to Needle that person which I find quite effective.