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1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? 1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff?

05-29-2017 , 03:07 AM
5 handed

V UTG (850): I have a lot of history with this villain. He has told me that it is part of his strategy to never cbet a dry board and I had seen him check tp on many dry boards before while being the preflop aggressor. He often takes weird lines that makes it hard to put him on a hand and he overvalues his hand on occasion. Overall kinda fishy.

HERO CO (covers): Tighter image, seen as a good aggressive player. I have raised the river as a bluff in previous sessions against this V and showed after it was successful.

OTTH

PREFLOP: V raises to 6, I call with JT everyone else folds. Pot: 15

FLOP: 595 V checks, I bet 10 V calls. Pot: 35

TURN: 8 V checks, I bet 25 V calls. Pot: 85

RIVER: 2 V bets 50, I raise to 175 total. V calls

I believed that my opponent was capable of playing combos of 9x and overpairs in this way. I decided to raise knowing that I could represent flushes very well and that I could fold out a lot of his range. Should I be folding this river or was this a good opportunity to pull the trigger?
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 03:34 AM
So I think this deep, 5 handed, IP, you should consider 3 betting to like 20-25 preflop.

if he always checks dry boards, yeah he could have a 9, but what does he do when he misses? Does he give up to a bet, or does he call and try and take it away later? Not cbetting dry boards is a weird thing to do, and ought to be exploited by betting every dry flop and letting him fold.

So basically if V C/Fs when he misses, once you bet flop and he calls, his range is very strong. You should be checking turn for a free draw to the river, and checking back most rivers. In particular if youre putting V on 9x, well then FDs are another huge part of his range, because if he doesnt have any air here, FD will be a wider part of his range than 9x. So basically even if you could get him off 9x, you still probably cant bluff raise him.

If V checks dry boards to let others bet and then tries to take it away later, you should check it back, because youre just bloating a pot that he is going to try to bluff at, and if he checks turn, you check, and if he bets turn/river you raise him and take it down.
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 05:00 AM
Raise all in and then if he calls point out that there are two 5 of clubs so this is a misdeal.

Seriously though I don't think you would play a flush like this. Given the fact that you've showed me you can bluff/raise rivers I'm calling with anything that has showdown value and hoping you don't have a hand that beats me like pocket 3s.
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark
So I think this deep, 5 handed, IP, you should consider 3 betting to like 20-25 preflop.

if he always checks dry boards, yeah he could have a 9, but what does he do when he misses? Does he give up to a bet, or does he call and try and take it away later? Not cbetting dry boards is a weird thing to do, and ought to be exploited by betting every dry flop and letting him fold.

So basically if V C/Fs when he misses, once you bet flop and he calls, his range is very strong. You should be checking turn for a free draw to the river, and checking back most rivers. In particular if youre putting V on 9x, well then FDs are another huge part of his range, because if he doesnt have any air here, FD will be a wider part of his range than 9x. So basically even if you could get him off 9x, you still probably cant bluff raise him.

If V checks dry boards to let others bet and then tries to take it away later, you should check it back, because youre just bloating a pot that he is going to try to bluff at, and if he checks turn, you check, and if he bets turn/river you raise him and take it down.
I believe that V will check call to float a decent amount OTF but it is rarely with pure airs, usually if he is floating he will show up with backdoor equity. That being said I agree that the turn should be a check back, his gut shot floats have either gotten there or paid a pair, and his backdoor spades have often improved so I don't think that I am folding out enough of his range with the turn bet.
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 03:52 PM
I agree, this deep you might as well 3! preflop. But call isn't terrible. You probably could have won it on the flop with the 3 bet pre followed by CB.

As played, you had some solid ideas and tried to push him off a decent hand on turn, but when he leads the river there are just too many hands he has to call with at that point. I don't know what the real suits were supposed to be since you screwed that up in the post. You don't have any blockers if that flush did come through. Overall, you overplayed this one. Probably didn't even need to fire that hard on the turn. Also, the thing about paired flops is that while they are dry and many like to c-bet them. You can call for your floats more true, but most people at 1/2 are only calling with some value or equity; thus, if your c-bet on flop here fails, which it did, you need to give villain a bit more weighted credit toward his value range.
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 04:45 PM
Part of a good bluff is that you have to pay attention to what the villain is doing. In this case, you were only looking at the board and your hand. You have a villain that on the flop and turn just x/c. On the river, he all of a sudden decides to take the lead. That should have been a warning sign that he liked what he saw on the river. Of course, he could be bluffing. However, you invested $175 to win $135. He has to fold over 57% of the time to make this profitable. He just isn't going to fold that frequently as a random 1/2 player that takes the lead on the river.
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote
05-29-2017 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by V3ttz3ao
I agree, this deep you might as well 3! preflop. But call isn't terrible. You probably could have won it on the flop with the 3 bet pre followed by CB.

As played, you had some solid ideas and tried to push him off a decent hand on turn, but when he leads the river there are just too many hands he has to call with at that point. I don't know what the real suits were supposed to be since you screwed that up in the post. You don't have any blockers if that flush did come through. Overall, you overplayed this one. Probably didn't even need to fire that hard on the turn. Also, the thing about paired flops is that while they are dry and many like to c-bet them. You can call for your floats more true, but most people at 1/2 are only calling with some value or equity; thus, if your c-bet on flop here fails, which it did, you need to give villain a bit more weighted credit toward his value range.
Yea the flop should be 595
1/2 Raising the River as a Bluff? Quote

      
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