1/2 Queens - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

We're basically readless after less than an orbit.

I'm flatting the flop since we're IP. Some V's have a tendency to "put us on AK", and pull **** like this with small PP or a 9.

Lets see what they do on the turn. Check/check we can check behind and call a reasonable bet OTR. Bet/raise and we can fold. Bet/call and I think we can also consider folding.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 06:40 PM

#27

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Nothing hurts my win rate more than being exploited by 1/2 players' c/r bluffs...

Come on man.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 07:20 PM

#28

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzah_ball

Nothing hurts my win rate more than being exploited by 1/2 players' c/r bluffs...

Come on man.

Do you honestly think a std 1/2 villain will think 9x JJ 10 10 is a bluff here?

Folding here is trying to play break even/small loser poker. There's just no reason for it.

edit:

Just a small note about this line of thinking that "players don't do x" at 1/2 so why worry about it." Not a question of where you are playing, it's a mindset. Does your decision here really change if you are playing 2/5 read less?

Quote

10-22-2014 , 07:25 PM

#29

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

If the only time you are continuing in a situation like this is with a set you are just missing a ton of potential value imo.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 07:37 PM

#30

Angrist

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 3,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sommerset

Do you honestly think a std 1/2 villain will think 9x JJ 10 10 is a bluff here?

Nope. They think they just out-drew AK/AQ.

I'm not sure I want to stack off $330 yet though. I don't think many V's are getting that much in without a set or better.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 07:39 PM

#31

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrist

Nope. They think they just out-drew AK/AQ.

I'm not sure I want to stack off $330 yet though. I don't think many V's are getting that much in without a set or better.

Neither do I.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 07:46 PM

#32

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,780

Neither do I, but I'm not folding this flop.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 08:48 PM

#33

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Readless at LLSNL, c/rs tend to be the nuts. Yes some players are idiots who c/r with 9x. But most players are idiots who c/r only with the nuts and otherwise call down.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 09:23 PM

#34

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sommerset

Fold? Cmon. You really think the only hand our raiser shows up with is KK+ and sets Thats MUBSY-UBSY.

I think he shows up with two pair sometimes.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 09:27 PM

#35

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sommerset

Reposted for late edit, but Honestly, if you need a set to continue here you are super exploitable. We are basically at the top of our range here IP and you want to fold getting 5:1.

Sometimes, the max EV play is one which would be super exploitable if you were up against good players but is the right play because you're not against good players.

This would be a fold against a loose-passive player who never pushes draws and who always has A9 beat. It isn't necessarily a fold against a player who could c/r with 88 or 54o because he puts you on AK. Which type of player are you more likely to see in a 1/2 game?

Quote

10-22-2014 , 09:37 PM

#36

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

That's the whole point. We don't know if we're up against a good player or not. The people who want to fold here basically want to do so because "it's 1/2 and omgc/r." This is super weak play based on our hand strength and board texture, and, of course, bet sizing of villan. The situation is so in our favor that if he ever shows up with a worse hand then ours here when we fold its a disaster.

Folding this readless is tantamount to nutpeddling and there just isnt a reason to do that IMO

Quote

10-22-2014 , 09:40 PM

#37

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

I'm not even saying we can't fold here, but we can't fold flop ever.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 09:46 PM

#38

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,780

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianNit

I think he shows up with two pair sometimes.

34 that limp/called pre and check/raised flop? Or is it 94 or 93? Folding here is terrible, and if they show up with one of these hands, we'll be able to crush them later.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 10:04 PM

#39

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sommerset

Folding this readless is tantamount to nutpeddling and there just isnt a reason to do that IMO

I'm okay with playing a style that could be perceived as weak-tight when readless, then shifting once I get a read. Of course, I tend not to cultivate a LAG image when playing.

In the rooms I usually play in, a check-raise by a random player is from a range where probably 80% of it is composed of hands that beat A9. I'm okay with using that range to decide how to play this hand.

I'd be okay with going with a read that V1 is more likely than random odds to be a loose-passive player and to have a typical LP c/r range.

Quote

10-22-2014 , 10:07 PM

#40

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

34 that limp/called pre and check/raised flop? Or is it 94 or 93? Folding here is terrible, and if they show up with one of these hands, we'll be able to crush them later.

Those are all hands I wouldn't be shocked to see one of these players have.

Quote

10-23-2014 , 12:24 AM

#41

blueshoes

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 488

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sommerset

I'm not even saying we can't fold here, but we can't fold flop ever.

Bro i think your missing part of the hand where we got check raised and flatted.

Quote

10-23-2014 , 12:55 AM

#42

Sommerset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueshoes

Bro i think your missing part of the hand where we got check raised and flatted.

I'm not. I'm also not sure what that's supposed to make me reconsider. I outlined why I don't think we should fold under the circumstances, I think it would be a huge mistake, in fact. Others don't, that's fine. I'm pretty sure the conversation has gone as far as it can unless someone else would like to chime in.