Ten handed table

Hero is a low stakes grinder working on building his bankroll up. Table image over the previous hour is TAG. Went to a couple showdowns and had the goods both times.

Hero ($215): Button
Villain 1 ($170): UTG - LAG who was waiting for his 2/5 NL seat and has been 3 betting and shoving his $170 preflop with pretty much ATC.
Villain 2 ($850) : HJ - Solid player who is capable of making moves and picking his spots. Have played previous sessions with him.

Hero: AK

Pre flop

Villain 1: raise to $15 UTG

call

call

Villain 2: raise to $35 in HJ

Hero's read here is Villain 2 is trying to isolate in position against the maniac Villain 1, and he's most likely willing to call a 4 bet shove from him. If Hero flat calls, Villain 1 is 50/50 either calling and then shoving on most flops or re-shoving pre flop.

Hero: ? on the button

I'm for sure 4-betting here, I don't want to be playing AK multi way here consindering they're 2 callers and a 3-bet from the Hi-jack.

I would like to wager it all

I'd just shove. Simple and strong. Don't particularly want to take a flop 3 ways.

This is a very EV+ situation, but the question is how valuable is the dead money? I think if you ship, youre flipping against whoever calls, but youll win $50 outright a decent among which is really good. Even though V1 is a maniac, he will peobably just fold to a cold 4 bet a good amount and chuck his money into the middle next hand.

If you call, V reshipping 50% means you are probably ahead for stacks, and if V1 calls and ships flop, you can hope V2 folds flop so you can fistpump call with ace high.

I think cold calling is more EV+ but higher variance and requires higher skill (if V1 calls and then ships flop and V2 calls flop, you gotta be able to make a read and decision on if A high is good based on board and reads)

There are two callers between Villain 1 and Villain 2 here, so cold calling is not nearly as comfortable here.

4 bet to how much? and who are you looking to isolate against?

I agree. I didn't think cold calling here was an option because Villain 1 was more than likely going to shove and there was a high likelihood Villain 2 would re-shove at that point. I'd just be in a situation where I have to call off my whole stack with AKos against 2 players. Sure it's +EV but I'm also trying to lower my variance a bit and would prefer to pick a better spot.

I'll probably just 4-bet all-in here, and either I'll take down the pot right now with some fold equity. And even if we are called, we're probably only a slight dog or flipping. Hell if we're lucky, we might even get called by AQ, if someone puts on a steal.

I'll only 4-bet to 130 or 140, if you think it's going to induce a spas 5-bet all-in from UTG, with AQ or some junk.

$83 in pot, $215 in my stack w/AKo in this spot? There'd be $298 in the middle without much concern.

The $35 bet from Villain 2 there also seemed a bit fishy because he's a good player and to me it didn't seem like $35 was enough to push everyone else out. Part of me was thinking he may have AA or KK and trying to disguise it and leave himself room to re-open the betting in case Villain 1 shoves and someone else calls in between. He knows that if he raises it to $50 or $60 it would look a lot more like AA or KK.

Am I overthinking this for 1/2??

honestly, I don't know why he's doing that. I don't know why he's raising that small with any part of his range. I completely agree with you, he should be raising bigger. But even if he has AA or KK, he definitely doesn't want to play in this multi-way pot here with AA or KK. unless if he's trying to induce a shove from another player.

However, at least in 1/2 games that I'm playing in, I don't think give that much credit to villain.

SPOILER

Hero: re-raise $215 all in

Villain 1: call all in for $170

fold

fold

Villain 2: call

Villain 1: 47
Villain 2: AA

Board: 355JK

Villain 1: Wins main pot ($543)
Villain 2: Wins side pot ($90)

Is there any situation where you'd play the AK differently there? What if Villain 2 had raised it to $60-$75 instead and you were more likely to be heads up against him in position by flat calling?

I just think that we just got a bit unlucky here and ran into the top of villain 2 range. Unless if we can really really credit Villain 2 for being super nutted when min 3-betting, I think we played it just fine. I'm not convinced that I can give someone that level of credit. If Villain 1 is showing up with complete junk, Villain 2 can for sure have more marginal hands here.

NO,

In LLNL games you make money straightforward and value betting.

You have position with AK. .., Right? ..OK
UTG makes a 2! - what hands UTG opens with entire table behind? - Premium? - OK
HJ knows UTG has got to have a good hand. Is that so? - So what hands he's gonna 3! with 4 dudes behind him (C/O,You, SB and BB). So the HJ is reopening the action with 4 players behind him. What hands you put HJ on? - I hope not AJ, AT, KQ, KJ

Don't think fancy like the HJ wants to isolate. From the HJ to your pos + 2 blinds is a long way. Think like HJ at least must have a hand equal or better vs. UTG and hold on the pressure from behind him.

Even if you call or 4! you can be 5! from on your left. You are in a untenable situation and probably have no outs even if one of the blinds call your raises.

AK is not design for this situation. AK has got to blow away hands or flip with the QQ, JJ and bet any other AK due to aggression. In a 2! UTG + a 3! on your right with 4 monkeys behind you are not on solid ground. You got to hit the flop very hard else nothing works in this kind of situations. You also don't have relative position to the last raiser and you are sandwiched between the blinds and the two cowboys.

Unless you shove all the $215 you got, else, Get the hell out and disregard your AK napkins because you lose nothing. You got no interest invested in the pot and you should not cold-call a 3! with opponents behind. (plus all the rest reading of the situation) This game is a situational game played with people and you got to think what they think at the time of action. What HJ thinks about UTG range and about you 4 dudes waiting in the dark for him to come home jump up and grab his face and slam his head to the floor.. (LOL). He's thinking about all those things if he's a player, a good player I mean.

I will fold and get new cards in a minute for free.

That's my take to this sort of situational action.

UTG was a LAG maniac who could be raising UTG with ATC. The range I put HJ on was 88+ & AJ+ knowing that with his stack he'd be willing to call a shove from UTG.

OK, But still I would like to tell you guys what my friend, real friend has told me about playing against maniacs. This friend is no other than J.C. Tran. The champion and this dude has lots of poker in his heart and tons of experience. Since I'm following this strategy it seems to me I make more money in those situations vs. a maniac. OK, here it is a copy-paste of an old eMail from JC:

==========================================

Playing against a maniac when you have position on him

If he’s to my right this is the best situation, you know, Alex.
I find a lot of players making the mistake of coming after the maniac. You should never come after the maniac because you could set yourself up for lots of mistakes. The most important is to play position on him. I honestly don’t recommend raising the maniac. Let him betting into you especially when you have a big hand, and if he draws out, oh well .., so be it. If you’re willing to raise him, be ready for a 3! or an all-in from him. The most important is let him come to you. You don’t go after him and sooner or later he’s gonna break and make a mistake, you know .., and you get his chips.

I don’t recommend raising to isolate the maniac. You know, raising the maniac is a good chance you gonna get re-raise. I also recommend don’t play too many drawing hands because if you flop like a draw it’s gonna be very expensive to continue. Play like pairs trying to hit a set or if you play drawing hands, play like strong big suited cards and big suited Aces because when you try to draw you also can hit a big pair too: AKs, AQs ,KQs if you hit top pair you’re willing to put some chips with it beside the actual draw. You know, don’t play like 76s and flop comes like 7,3,2 because you cannot go with that three streets of betting. Play solid hands and try to flop a good hand and he’s gonna break sooner or later and he’s gonna pay you off, he’s gonna bluff into you. My suggestion is don’t bluff him.

Also, don’t play Ace-rag hands against maniac. You know, maniacs are entitle to good hands too, you know. If he’s raising six hands out of ten, it doesn’t mean two out of his six raising hands he may have a good hand or a monster. Since you have position, you just call and let him fire into you three streets and just play position on him and make decision on each street like flop, turn and river. Don’t force yourself to play hands just because you want to isolate the maniac. If you are not deep stack and the maniac raises and you call with 76s and what happens if you flop a pair or what happens if you flop a draw? Now you have put yourself in a situation to go with it and you risking on drawing your stack into the pot on a draw or a weak pair. You are better off staying with a pair and try to flop a set or even a big pair. You know, a lot of players try to isolate by re-raising with AT/AJ and now the maniac moves all-in. Now you’re facing such a big decision. You hand may be strong against his range but if you have another player in the hand that try to squeeze and now you have 3-way pot and before you know he maniac moves all-in. Now what you do with your weak Ace when you have another player in the hand? - My suggestion is being patient and try to have a solid strong hand and sooner or later he’s gonna fire right into you and you break him. I’ve dealt with many manics all my life and I know how I made lots of money in my cash games over the years. The way I just told you I think is the most profitable way.

JC
=============================================

Thank you for sharing! I'll try that out next time i run into one.

You're shoving pre-flop for value against V1 and V2. V1 as described wants to set money on fire, so offer him the torch. If V2 is really a good player he should be isolating very wide for value against V1. You have V2's range crushed.