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1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. 1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value.

07-07-2010 , 12:03 PM
1/2 NL at Wheeling Island Casino in WV. Playing on a Tuesday afternoon with a lot of (imho) below average regs. I have been playing for about an hour, but observed for around an hour waiting for my seat.

I have been TAG. Raised from position a few times, then c-bet and taken down some nice pots. The table in general has been very passive.

I am in the BB with QJs. A few players limp to the SB (Villain 10) who raises to $7.

The raise size was really small for this table, with the standard raise being $12-15 (other than one old nit who always did $8). The villain had been routinely PF raising to $12. Based on the raise and my read on this guy, I have his range as very, very narrow, and I am heavily leaning towards AA-KK. He is deep, and I have a mid-stack of 150 BBs. The rest of the table is mixed and not really a factor.
I call, but I am not looking to engage heavily with less than 2 pair.
3 other players come along for the $7.

Villain ($500) in SB
Hero ($300) in BB
3 others behind.

Pot: $35
Flop:
Q
J
9:

Villain leads out for $10. My read on him is that he is not very good in a variety of ways, particularly his bet sizing. In earlier hands when he had fairly marginal hands, his bets were larger relative to the pot than when he had a stronger hands (ex. $30 into a $40 pot when he had mid-pair, good kicker, and $15 into a $60 pot with the nuts).

The bet of $10 leads me to believe that my read of AA-KK is pretty solid, with maybe something like A-Q as a slim possibility. He likely would have either raised JJ/QQ larger pre "to protect it". I don't believe he would be betting AK or anything of that nature as a c-bet on this board. I know my pre-flop range was very narrow for this villain, but the small raise from the SB smelled like a monster he wanted action with.

I decide to raise for value. If the passives behind me have something like A-Q, they will stick around. Otherwise they are dumping to the $10. Getting it in here would be tough, and I am not sure what bet size to make. There are a lot of cards that could kill action on the turn for both of us, so I want to start building the pot now.

Hero: Raise to $40. Maybe too small, but if he does have AA/KK, I am not sure how he values that hand on this board.

Everyone else folds, action back to the villain. He thinks about it for a bit, and then calls.

Turn:
Q
Pot: $115.

Villain: Bets $10.
Hero: WTF? Blocker bet? Scared hand looking for a cheap river? I have the nuts, so this is all about value at this point.
He thought long and hard calling the $30 more on the flop, and he seems like a scared player in this hand. The body language is not confident, and he is not advanced enough to be trying a reverse tell.

Do I call or raise here? If raise, how much and why?
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:18 PM
Start raising early and often. If he has aces or kings, he's not laying them down on the flop. Raise the turn to 70, so that he has less than a PSB to call on the river. You're losing too much value by betting so small.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Start raising early and often. If he has aces or kings, he's not laying them down on the flop. Raise the turn to 70, so that he has less than a PSB to call on the river. You're losing too much value by betting so small.
What would your flop raise be?
I thought my $30 raise (which at this table was a lot on the flop) was a little low in retrospect, but at the same time, he thought long and hard about the call.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
What would your flop raise be?
I thought my $30 raise (which at this table was a lot on the flop) was a little low in retrospect, but at the same time, he thought long and hard about the call.
I'd go a bit higher on the flop to 40. That gives him over 2:1 to call and many players feel they can't fold getting 2:1.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:34 PM
That was the number I came up with in retrospect. I will say that this was the kind of guy that didn't look at bets always in relation to pot odds.
Thinking about it now, as he saw "big bets" as somewhat bluffy when he used them and small bets as "big hands", I should have used that against him more. He seemed so timid after i raised the flop I think I cost myself some value by trying to keep him in.

(Note: after the hand, the table conversation was how everyone and their brother had me on K-10 on the flop.)
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:39 PM
You've got $250 left? Make it about $75 and put the rest in on the river.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
Pot: $115.
Villain: Bets $10.
$10 into $115 dollar pot means it's a feeler bet. The way to maximize value here is not a dollar amount on your bet because any raise and he will fold since he is looking for you to call/fold.

You need to psych him into calling through table talk or action. Something like, "$10 bet? What are you trying to trap me if I raise?" Something that makes it seem like you think he's the one conning you. So when you bet more you can say something like, "Even though I have middle pair I'm just going to need to raise you because I think you have air." Then bet 4x-5x his bet: $40-$50. If he falls for it great, if not you just fold **without** showing your cards. If he folds you can follow up with, "I really thought you may have had me..."

Also, if he falls for it and you show your hand it sets up amazing bluffing attempts later one because no one will want to call your rags on the river if you make a significant raise.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 01:49 PM
mr. ac - I think that is great for some players, but I never talk during a hand, and doing so would be really out of character for me. My high school speech and theater teacher always told me my acting skills were minimal, so I have tried to avoid using them.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote
07-07-2010 , 02:00 PM
the reason i came up with that is because i ran into a similar situation this weekend. the pot was around $80 and it was three-handed. i was in position. on the river a scare card fell for a flush. i had rags. first position bet $10 and second position called. sensing a weak bet i raised to $30. both folded. the reason for my "weak" raise was because it was as though i were looking for a call. if went higher it may have been perceived differently. it was kind of the opposite scenario but the same "mental" logic. if i really did want them to call instead of fold (to my bluff) i would have needed to say something to get these two people react differently to my raise against the first position feeler bet.
1/2 NL: Flop top 2, turn the nuts, help me maximize value. Quote

      
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