Hero ($250): 30s white guy. Tight/Losing Image. I've been sitting for six hours or so and have had very few playable hands. Anything I've played, I've opened in position. I've been 3!'d by V1 a few times throughout the session but he's always shown down a premium hand when this was the case. The worst i've seen him show after a preflop 3! is TT. I have not called his preflop reraise in the 3-4 times he's done it so far. I'm down about $150 or so at this point.

V1 ($900): Older white guy. I would say he has the appearance of an OMC but he plays a little more aggressive both pre and post flop. I have not seen him reraise lighter than TT in the 6 hours we've been at the table. Not capable of semi bluffing. Don't believe he can fold over pairs on dry flops with heavy action. Position Aware.

V2 ($200): Younger black guy. Plays way too many hands. Limp calls way too much. Over values draws. Not position aware.



Hero opens KK UTG for $15. V1 Reraises to $45. Fold to V2 in Hijack who flats. CO, B, SB,BB all fold. Hero calls.

Pot: $138 Flop: J85
Hero check, V1 bets $100, V2 Calls, Hero ?

This seems like the easiest ship pre, why are we taking this to the flop 3 ways OOP when there is like almost 50 BB in there already?

As played i am almost autostacking off when i get a flop like this. Thats why we flat right i suppose? To underrep our hand and flop an overpair where nobody would have any idea we have KK.

have to ship it preflop. if he has jacks now, that's too bad. there's too much money in the pot. QQ would play the same way, other hands like AJ can be overplaying. shipping it preflop eliminates hindsight regret and is mathematically correct


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Stacks are too short to 4! to 110-120, so I'm usually just jamming it pre. Flatting the $45 3! with 125bb is borderline criminal, and it's what has you in this spot OTF. V should have AA/QQ here a lot (I'd think JJ would bet a bit smaller OTF), but your hand is under-repped as well. I guess I understand how this is an aggravating spot, but your hand strength should be right in the middle of his range. With the money already in the pot, and you only having 100bb behind, gotta rip it in here IMO.

Ez jam pre with V2 in the pot. Without V2 this is a lot closer and I prefer a call pre.

As played jammmmm

This. You can't try to dodge every KK v AA cooler.

I think the 3b/Cbet flop is QQ/AA a lot, and the cold caller pre and post has middling pps a lot, two of which are sets now. I'm discounting AJ here but I may be wrong.

Against 2 people here, I'm not feeling too good about KK, as now I'm losing to JJ/88/AA which is a huge part of their combined ranges and only beating QQ.

Your only hope is V1 having QQ and V2 having AJ exactly.

Re-raise/jam pre. As played, gii. You cannot fold here, ever. Seriously.

So V1 has 3! preflop against you specifically 3 or 4 times? That is pretty damn laggy. Just based on that frequency alone, I am willing to rip it in on a random flop. But, the J on the flop is really bad, because that reduces the only hand that we beat to QQ.

Good thing is that V2 calls and has lots of J's in his range. I dunno, 6 hours and card dead, it is time to go home.

But as played, I would shove it in based on V1 seems to be isoing you and then C-betting you off of your hands.

that´s not a huge part. that´s 3 exact hands for 2 players.
I´d actually do something like min4bet pre to keep the cold caller with his ridicolous range in, jamming ain´t bad either of course, and flop is such a no brainer autostackoff.

Ha,... ha... hero just calls pre with 125bb eff

Oh Lord! Two kings are a beautiful hand in a short stack spot, almost the nuts. But in a deep stack game, it's very different. Now two kings are a hand you can't fall in love with. But in this situation when you got 125bb eff you almost have the nuts and got to jam preflop. No just calling. Jam! .. wtf?

Shove pre-flop.

Fist pump jam pre. As played get it in.

Thanks for all the input. I have a couple thoughts/comments that I'm curious to hear about.

1. Acknowledging that preflop is bad, and borderline train wreck, how deep do stacks need to be to make calling is an acceptable alternative? My sense is that with my stack being as short as it is, the mistake gets worse and worse as the number of Vs in the pot grows. Is flatting EVER right? I can't really think of a multi handed scenario where it's defensible. Heads up is different though.

2. As played, I'm fairly surprised everyone advocates this as a standard shove. I understand that stacks are short and there's just too much money in the pot, but how wide can V1's range really be in this situation? I don't think V's range is much wider than JJ,QQ,KK(unlikely, obviously) and AA. How often does V1 actually need to show up here in order to justify the call?

you are really overcomplicating this. I actually don´t hate pre that much since we keep the whale in and have a really nice SPR to stack off on almost all non A flops, but don´t start to look for excuses to fold on this board.

how long did it actually take you to gii in game here? and would you really make a thread about it if you won the hand?

Thanks for this. I check shoved and won the pot, but I got my money in behind. I always try to examine those situations, thus the thread.

All-in pre, AP stack off on this flop.

Elaborate further.