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1/2 KK line check 1/2 KK line check

02-01-2016 , 09:45 PM
1/2 $300 max buy in
Canada

Hero: 20s white male. Been at the table less than an hour. Raised one hand and took it down on the flop, called two PFR and folded on flop. Not much action out of me, any image I have from villain would be superficial, though compared to the rest of the table I think he can surmise that I'm more on the TAG grinder player than a gambler based on my appearance and composure. Stack $270

Villain: 20s asain male. Been at the table for about 30 min. Played one hand in which only BTN limped, he raised to 12 in SB, only BTN calls. 734r flop goes check/check. K turn he bets 20 she calls. 2 river he bets 30 she calls with straight and is good. Seems TAG on the tighter side, not sure if reg but seems comfortable at table. Stack $275

On to the hand!

Villain opens to 12 in MP, folds to hero in SB with KK who raises to 41, folds to villain who flats.

Flop: 22Q ($~80)

Hero bets 50, villain calls.

Turn: 22QJ ($180)

Hero...?

At the time I was trying to figure out what exactly I beat. TT and lower pocket pairs, but not sure he calls the reraise preflop with those holdings. AA I was never winning against, QQ gets there on flop, and now JJ on turn.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:10 PM
I'm probably shoving turn with a pot sized bet left.

We are not deep enough to b/f.

Never c/f here. No bluffs to induce so c/c doesn't make sense.

If he has QQ or JJ, nh.

We get value from AQ/KQ/QJ and maybe pp's that "put us on AK" as V's often do.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:14 PM
He probably has AQ or KQ or QJ a good portion of the time here and might also be there with weaker hands if he is weak. It depends on your opponent, but with no more read than that I would bet for value again here setting a river shove.

You could also shove right there OTT, but I'd rather make two bets since a shove here might scare weak hands he would call 2 small bets with and since the board is not too drawy.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamNewton3
He probably has AQ or KQ or QJ a good portion of the time here and might also be there with weaker hands if he is weak. It depends on your opponent, but with no more read than that I would bet for value again here setting a river shove.
We have a pot sized bet OTT. No room for 2 streets of betting.

If we bet $100 OTT he's folding or shoving. And if he calls (which he won't) we set up a river shove of $80 into $380.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:20 PM
I think shoving turns your hand way too face up to AA/KK meaning you only get called by better. It's conceivable that you could 3! AK, bet the flop and shut down on the turn unimproved. I don't normally advocate for FPS, but I may elect for a check/shove in this particular situation as I think AQ/KQ/TT type hands will seize the initiative if you give him the opportunity. No real draws to be worried about.

I had a similar hand a week ago where UTG straddled $10, few callers, I raised to $75 from BB with KJo, only UTG called. Flop J33r, I lead for $100 into $180, villain calls. Turn was a 6, I check, villain bets $130 into $380 (terrible sizing), I shove for about $450 and he tank calls it off with TT and MHIG.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:21 PM
fatmanonguiter: I know lol, but it's 1/2 against a pretty much unknown V, most 1/2 players dont keep track of the pot size and just see the bet in front of them, like I said I think we can get him to put his hole stack in with weaker hands if we do so on two streets.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:24 PM
i like x/gii ott. shove river if turn checks through
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 10:28 PM
Grunch:

pre: I like the sizing. Why $41? Why not $41.50?

flop: This is where people get into trouble. I'm guessing you based your bet size on the size of the pot. That's one step ahead of players who base it based on absolute monetary value, but one step behind those who consider what their stack will look like compared to the pot on the next street. $50 isn't horrible but if you bet $55-60 you make the turn shove much easier to digest for a villain holding AQ.

Turn: As played you can shove yourself of course or you can check if you think he won't call with worse. Calling if he shoves obviously, and if he checks back then shove river. Either one is fine depending on what kind of payer he is post flop.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 11:04 PM
I like the line. On the turn I would bet 80, easily called and setting up an easy shove on the river. Your essentially trying to milk him into calling it off with an AQ/KQ type hand.

You could also bet larger on the flop in order to set up an easier shove on the turn.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 11:07 PM
meh.... hard to range him on only QQ or AA. you could check for pot control and see what he does on the turn. but I am probably not folding.

betting out 70 is not bad either. if he shoves over your 70, probably fold.

but if he just calls, shoving all non A or Q rivers.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-01-2016 , 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kler
I like the line. On the turn I would bet 80, easily called and setting up an easy shove on the river. Your essentially trying to milk him into calling it off with an AQ/KQ type hand.

You could also bet larger on the flop in order to set up an easier shove on the turn.
+1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
meh.... hard to range him on only QQ or AA. you could check for pot control and see what he does on the turn. but I am probably not folding.

betting out 70 is not bad either. if he shoves over your 70, probably fold.

but if he just calls, shoving all non A or Q rivers.
Can't bet fold here. If he has QQ or JJ, we lose. But we can target all his Qx hands and even his Jx hands, and smaller pocket pairs. Pot is too big and stacks too shallow to bet fold and KK is ahead of too much of his range to check fold.

Ship it, and either he folds worse or calls with better. Bet $80, keep him in the hook, shove river.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
betting out 70 is not bad either. if he shoves over your 70, probably fold.

but if he just calls, shoving all non A or Q rivers.
I like a small bet OTT to induce a call from weaker hands and setup a river shove, but never folding to a shove... If you are going to fold to a shove than there is no point in betting small here, just check or shove. Especially that there is a straight draw coming in on the turn justifying a shove from weak vilain who might be scared you're drawing.
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02-02-2016 , 12:17 AM
I should've noted in OP what I considered his plausible range is but I'll do that now.

AA-TT, AK & AQ. I'd put lower PPs and hands like KQ in a 5% spazz factor, but he really didn't strike me as someone who would stubbornly call for no reason. He was only raiser and I wasn't squeezing nor was I making this play in position. For these reasons I definitely assigned him a stronger range, maybe even AKs/o but AQs only, or perhaps only 8 combos compared to 16.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamNewton3
He probably has AQ or KQ or QJ a good portion of the time here and might also be there with weaker hands if he is weak. It depends on your opponent, but with no more read than that I would bet for value again here setting a river shove.

You could also shove right there OTT, but I'd rather make two bets since a shove here might scare weak hands he would call 2 small bets with and since the board is not too drawy.

He's not calling for $41 pre with QJ.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKingDavid
He's not calling for $41 pre with QJ.
Right, probably not, but we never know, we don't know how often he continues when getting 3! Also hero has only played 30 minutes with him so we don't know that much on him (and 1/2 are generally really bad)
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 09:50 AM
Based on the hand history, opponent seems passive post. That 7-high rainbow board is ideal for c-betting yet he checked.

I doubt his 3-bet calling range includes QJ. Probably 4-betting AA pre, and folding AK/TT OTF.

So we are looking at KK/QQ/AQ/JJ. Only 1 combo of KK left. Would he continue with JJ OTF? Still, adding them up there are more combos we beat.

Shoving may fold AQ, but checking will let him bet TPTK most of the time. If checked through, shove river.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamNewton3
Right, probably not, but we never know, we don't know how often he continues when getting 3! Also hero has only played 30 minutes with him so we don't know that much on him (and 1/2 are generally really bad)

So don't assign combos to his range that probably are not in there.
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 07:14 PM
Thanks for the replies. While I don't necessarily agree with some of the wider ranges people have come up with, I do believe at the time I was a bit MUBsy in not including AQ or perhaps 88-TT that could also call preflop and flat flop.

Results:
Spoiler:
Hero goes all in, villain snaps with QQ

Spoiler:
K on river and hero scoops
1/2 KK line check Quote
02-02-2016 , 07:36 PM
I prefer smaller bet sizings to get it in over 3 streets instead of 2 on a board like this where you already have 2 pair. Like 40 on flop, 80 on turn and ship the last 140 on river. It keeps in all his worse made hands and makes it very hard for him to get away from top pair. If you ship turn here with a pot size bet many people will get away from their worse hands, which is terrible for you.

This will also give you more FE with small bets in the future if you get to showdown, which is a great thing.
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