1/2 I Can't let go of JJ - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

1/2 I Can't let go of JJ

Post Reply Subscribe

...

03-27-2015 , 10:00 PM

kenshi3

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 282

hero: young Asian buying $300 played snug for couple orbits.

Villian: decent player has $500 stack but calling with trash sometimez, knows when to fold.

Hero raise UTG +1 to 20

Folds to villain who calls

Flop $43 : Qh 9c 6s

Hero bets 25 , villain calls

Turn: 3s

Hero bets 35 , villain calls

River: 9c Hero checks villain bets 45, Hero calls.

Spoiler:

Quote

03-27-2015 , 10:12 PM

lovethecroak

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 31

I think you're giving him pot odds to call with top pair... Need better bet-sizing on turn... IMO

Quote

03-27-2015 , 10:19 PM

Dutchstreetfish

adept

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 832

The middle card pairing on river is really bad for your hand. You can't beat a Q and now you can't beat a 9. You bet flop and turn and he called. You have to figure you're beat and let it go.
You could fire river if you think he missed a draw and if you do that, you can size your bet at 35, which saves you ten versus his bet and also might have some unlikely FE but I think river is check fold. The only hand you beat is JT and you hold jack blockers.

Quote

03-27-2015 , 10:49 PM

jesse123

adept

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,078

The river bet is just donating money. He's never folding a queen on the river to $45 after calling the flop and turn. There's $170 in the pot. You're barely betting more than 1/4 of the pot. If you want to bluff him off a queen, you should bet closer to $140 on the river.

I'd either c-bet the flop + c/f the turn or else c/c the flop and c/f the turn against this V.

This is a great type of villain to play against. They'll call down with crap. They way to beat them is to make a hand and value bet 3-streets.

Quote

03-27-2015 , 10:50 PM

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

I might not c-bet here. Nothing better folds. You block JT draw. A or K turns are meh but what can you do. I'm OK either way but do prefer a check.

I definitely don't bet turn. Why bet again?

V is betting 45 into 160 on river. Easy call getting 5:1. Hope for JT, 87.

Quote

03-27-2015 , 10:54 PM

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

$20 pre is a bit much.

Totally agree with Jesse on flop/turn lines. Prefer the line that starts with a check.

Quote

03-27-2015 , 11:01 PM

however

banned

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 350

I think once he calls flop and turn you should fold the river. maybe he has tt here once in a while but mostly will have a q

willyoman would you cbet on a 862 rainbow flop?

Quote

03-27-2015 , 11:35 PM

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

^ yeah, definitely c-bet JJ on 862r. Get value from 99-TT, 77, 33-55, T9, 97s, 75s, 54s, 43s, 8x, 6x, Ax, over cards, etc. Getting Q, K and A to fold is also good.

On Qxx, it's hard to get value, and fewer over cards to fold out (just A and K).

Quote

03-27-2015 , 11:39 PM

however

banned

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 350

makes sense

Quote

03-28-2015 , 12:26 AM

#10

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

less pre, possibly check flop, definitely check turn.

River is terrible card and we have nut worst hand to bluff catch with, so, fold.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 12:34 AM

#11

LolPony

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4,126

This looks pretty standard on villains part here (not surprised calling with Q8 pre). You played every street poorly.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 12:39 AM

#12

Fluke22

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse123

Hero didn't bet the river

Quote

03-28-2015 , 02:42 AM

#13

Alexandar

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 623

I like 55 on turn. But indeed best line is check flop, villian usually checks back with this hand, if he bets call and c/f turn, if he checks just delayed cbet 25 or 30 (now you have lots of 9x in your range) and provided he doesnt raise, you CAN bomb river for 80.
(You lose the same amount and have a decent chance of getting him to toss it.)
But Id still prefer check folding river.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 04:02 AM

#14

85chickasaw

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,802

especially at 1-2, you should be very willing to let go of anything below top pair. this is more true against "snug" players.

taking a stab on the flop is ok, but i'd shut down once villain calls especially without a big draw on the board.

that river bet by villain screams value and the 9 wouldn't make me feel good.. if we thought he might be calling with less than a Q then it was probably with a 9.

your bet sizing is way too small to really blow anyone off their hand though if that's what you were trying to do.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 05:20 AM

#15

a12

adept

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 825

imho, WP up to the turn. Turn should have been either a check or a bet should have been ~70.
AP: Check fold OTR.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 11:33 AM

#16

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

Never folding this river getting 5:1 as played.

Villain is betting river with worse 16%+ of the time.

If you really think you're beat 84% of the time... then OK, don't call the $45 and give up the $205 pot.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 11:53 AM

#17

AintNoLimit

Coach live/online NLHE

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,399

Aside from the hand beginning, this would be a check fold on the river. He either has a Q or 9 "most" of the time. This would not be the spot to try and pick off a bluff as there just are not enough bluffs in his range ordinarily on this runout.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 12:20 PM

#18

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyoman

I think after he calls the flop he has better than us most of the time.

He almost never gets to the river with hands he needs to bluff.

I think the turn bet makes no sense at all.

Last edited by au4all; 03-28-2015 at 12:27 PM.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 03:43 PM

#19

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

^ V's entire line is bizarre. Value betting the hand he did on the river is pretty bad.

And yes, V easily gets to the river with air.

On flop, we bet 25 into 40.

In turn, we bet 35 into 90.

V can easily have 87 or JT. KJ and KT are possible. Backdoor spades. I don't really expect him to bet a weak top pair hand. And yes, you could make a good case for a fold if V bet more, but I'm just not folding the river to a 1/4 PSB.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 03:46 PM

#20

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

I mean, for everyone who is folding, what bet size do you call?

You're folding to a bet of 45 into 160.

So are you also folding to a bet of 40? 35? 30? 25? 20?

I think the results in the OP are skewing people's thinking.

Please stop posting results in OPs.

Quote

03-28-2015 , 04:59 PM

#21

crow27

adept

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 975

I don't think is was a snap fold, but the larger mistake IMO was the turn sizing. If I'm betting there (villain dependent) I feel I need to bet $65ish to get most V's off Q rag.

what would you put hero on if the action was R/c-b/small bet/ check? Would you not be able to take all Q's out of his range by the river?

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...