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Old 02-08-2012, 05:38 AM   #1
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1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Villian is new to the table only been around an orbit or two so my image and reads on him are pretty much not relevant/not there.

He's a middle aged black man , so that's about all i have to go on.

Hero ($350) Folds to HERO in the HJ or CO who makes it $10 with Q10o , sb calls , bb calls.

Flop A23r

Check , Check , Hero bets 18$ , fold , call

Turn J , no flush draw

Check , Hero bets $35


I find myself barreling these A high boards when i turn equity and I'm not sure if it's great vs most 1/2 players. Sure if he decided to c/call some middle pair it's likely going to work but is that really a significant part of his range?

I really ended up butchering this one , misread the board , thought a non existinent flush draw came in and went for a 3rd barrel but the turn is really where I'm having trouble with because I've went for 2 barrels here before when I've turned OESD/Gutters/FD or what have you and I'm thinking my best bet is to just give up/take the free card on the hand after called on a Ace high board regardless of my improved equity , and save the barreling on Ace high boards when i have a hand i want to take these players to value town with.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:43 AM   #2
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Grunch.
If you want to make him lay down a weak Ace det bigger. If I read OP correctly, you've bet 18->30 and then 35->66. 1st one is OK I think, but the turn bet is really smallish. Also how deep is the Villain?
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:43 AM   #3
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

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Originally Posted by th1986 View Post
Villian is new to the table only been around an orbit or two so my image and reads on him are pretty much not relevant/not there.

He's a middle aged black man , so that's about all i have to go on.

Hero ($350) Folds to HERO in the HJ or CO who makes it $10 with Q10o , sb calls , bb calls.

Flop A23r

Check , Check , Hero bets 18$ , fold , call

Turn J , no flush draw

Check , Hero bets $35


I find myself barreling these A high boards when i turn equity and I'm not sure if it's great vs most 1/2 players. Sure if he decided to c/call some middle pair it's likely going to work but is that really a significant part of his range?

I really ended up butchering this one , misread the board , thought a non existinent flush draw came in and went for a 3rd barrel but the turn is really where I'm having trouble with because I've went for 2 barrels here before when I've turned OESD/Gutters/FD or what have you and I'm thinking my best bet is to just give up/take the free card on the hand after called on a Ace high board regardless of my improved equity , and save the barreling on Ace high boards when i have a hand i want to take these players to value town with.
I like the pot stab. You will take it down a lot. The thing is once called on an A high board, the villain isn't folding unless to 3 huge barrels(even then sometimes they won't fold Ace-rag). LLSNL fish (i assume they are all fish until proven otherwise) are terrified of an Ace. When they call on an A high board, that's not a good sign. I'm giving up on the turn like always and praying to hit my K ball
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:49 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

I don't say that superbarrel is much better then calling and trying to hit but, for sure. If say Villain is $200 deep.

$18-$35-$70(?) <<< $20-$50-$120

If you want to push fish off the hand bet big, put them to a decision. For most fish the only time they start worrying about betsizing is when you put them AI. Otherwise they just playing in 'Have TP, not folding' mode.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:51 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Villian started the hand with roughly $150 sorry didn't mention that.

Ok my thoughts exactly wrt bet sizing (needed to be bigger ott if i decided to barrel). I think had i bet bigger on the turn he may lay it down and than on the river i bet fairly small (less than 1/2 pot) but i did this because i thought the perfect scare card came off and my plan if it didn't was to just cram the river and pray he finds a fold with his crappy ace. Again this scare card i speak of was non exisistent and just a figment of my imagination which is a good arguement as to why i need to keep my sessions short for the time being and progressivly increase them because at the moment after about 2-3 hours I'm not anywhere near my A game.

As far as shutting down after getting called on Ahigh boards , that is how i plan to proceed in the future since I'm not having very good results barreling Ace high boards.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:55 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

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Originally Posted by th1986 View Post
Villian started the hand with roughly $150 sorry didn't mention that.

Ok my thoughts exactly wrt bet sizing (needed to be bigger ott if i decided to barrel). I think had i bet bigger on the turn he may lay it down and than on the river i bet fairly small (less than 1/2 pot) but i did this because i thought the perfect scare card came off and my plan if it didn't was to just cram the river and pray he finds a fold with his crappy ace. Again this scare card i speak of was non exisistent and just a figment of my imagination which is a good arguement as to why i need to keep my sessions short for the time being and progressivly increase them because at the moment after about 2-3 hours I'm not anywhere near my A game.

As far as shutting down after getting called on Ahigh boards , that is how i plan to proceed in the future since I'm not having very good results barreling Ace high boards.
Fish that have a pair of aces aren't going to be afraid of "scare cards" they are going to be afraid of big bets.
Like I said that, triple barreling against a fish that has a pair of Aces isn't what I'm trying to do.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:02 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Yeah i agree , just having a hard time following that gameplan in game. I need to just focus and have my primary objective be take them to value town , even with mediocore hands and not try and run multi street bluffs vs players who don't fold. I guess i leveled myself into it since he just sat , when in reality i should only use this play vs players i am confident can c/call flop and c/fold to further agression with TP weak kicker type hands.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:05 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

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Yeah i agree , just having a hard time following that gameplan in game. I need to just focus and have my primary objective be take them to value town , even with mediocore hands and not try and run multi street bluffs vs players who don't fold. I guess i leveled myself into it since he just sat , when in reality i should only use this play vs players i am confident can c/call flop and c/fold to further agression with TP weak kicker type hands.
+1
There is definitely a type of player that will call with TP one street and fold on the next street. You just have to be able to identify them!
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:07 AM   #9
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Quote:
Originally Posted by th1986 View Post
Villian started the hand with roughly $150 sorry didn't mention that.

Ok my thoughts exactly wrt bet sizing (needed to be bigger ott if i decided to barrel). I think had i bet bigger on the turn he may lay it down and than on the river i bet fairly small (less than 1/2 pot) but i did this because i thought the perfect scare card came off and my plan if it didn't was to just cram the river and pray he finds a fold with his crappy ace. Again this scare card i speak of was non exisistent and just a figment of my imagination which is a good arguement as to why i need to keep my sessions short for the time being and progressivly increase them because at the moment after about 2-3 hours I'm not anywhere near my A game.

As far as shutting down after getting called on Ahigh boards , that is how i plan to proceed in the future since I'm not having very good results barreling Ace high boards.
Barreling weakness is a good practice IMO. I think it is best used against non-clueless fish who know, for example that stacking of with a TP is not good, or those who are playing scared money. It also helps your image to show a triple barrel bluff. But if you are going for superbarrells you also have to go for 3 streets of value semi-light. Oh and for sure you have to play your opponent. Against unknown, i guess giving up was the best option.

P.S. Don't believe fish doesn't see your image. They do.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:10 AM   #10
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

ya i wish i remember some of his wisdom he spread after he was so proud of snapping off my bluff

something along the lines of "if i flop an ace im not folding" , wish i knew that before bud.

luckily my boy stacked him. Villian c/r ai with broadway straight when the flush hit the river (after calling a big flop re raise and checking the turn when he hit his broadway). buddy had the nuts. villian said he didn't even see the flush draw had hit , so that just further proves your point that there is no scare card to these types of players.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:14 AM   #11
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

Also as a side note.
Say the flop is T35 and you take a stab at the pot IP.
Fish calls and the turn is an A. This is a great card to keep barreling. They will some times call thinking "he doesn't have the A" when they call and check river (fish are like never checking Ax two pairs otr) you should for sure be three barreling.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:16 AM   #12
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

& yeah i wish id of stayed around long enough to let the 3 barrell pay off in terms of getting some real thin value but i left shortly after which is a huge leak of mine , when i take a big beat or a failed bluff i usually tilt. I don't tilt verbally and never comment on how bad I think a player is like i see lots of others do (which is the dumbest thing ever IMO) , it's more of a mental tilt where i just beat myself up for how i played a hand.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:21 AM   #13
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

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Originally Posted by LolPony View Post
Also as a side note.
Say the flop is T35 and you take a stab at the pot IP.
Fish calls and the turn is an A. This is a great card to keep barreling. They will some times call thinking "he doesn't have the A" when they call and check river (fish are like never checking Ax two pairs otr) you should for sure be three barreling.
yep i def have that concept down , barreling overcards on the flop you describe , it's these damn A high boards i keep levelling myself into barreling when i turn equity. That being said your right there are players where barreling will get them off a weak ace but i need to identify that player before i make that move and not just blindly barrel.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:21 AM   #14
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

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& yeah i wish id of stayed around long enough to let the 3 barrell pay off in terms of getting some real thin value but i left shortly after which is a huge leak of mine , when i take a big beat or a failed bluff i usually tilt. I don't tilt verbally and never comment on how bad I think a player is like i see lots of others do (which is the dumbest thing ever IMO) , it's more of a mental tilt where i just beat myself up for how i played a hand.
Getting up while tilting isn't a leak.
It's a good thing.
Leveling yourself into keep playing just because the players are low quality, even though your tilting is bad!

Managing tilt is always something to work on (so you don't have to leave a table of fish after a failed bluff), but getting up while on tilt is never a leak!
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:29 AM   #15
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Re: 1/2 Barrell turn vs unknown

No , for sure. I prob worded that wrong. It's more so the fact that i allow these things , which are destined to happen put me on tilt. So yeah like you said managing tilt is something i really need to work on.

I'm going to misplay hands.

I'm going to get bluffs snapped off.

I'm going to take bad beats.

I just need to progress to the point where these things don't bother me so much and throw me off my game making me end sessions before i should.

So far I think I've done fairly well getting up if I'm on tilt (online wayyy different story , down 1k? ill be damned if i don't win that back , 12hrs later -500 more , playing terrible , ya i wish i had this quality when it came to online)
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