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Old 02-09-2012, 03:24 AM   #1
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1/2 Aj river line

Effective stack 300

Only sat half hr ago do no real image mostly just folding

Villain just moved from another table an orbit ago has around 4-500

Hero holds aj of hearts

Action , utg limps , co limps , hero makes it 15 from sb call call

A q q rainbow

Pot 45 hero bets 27 call fold

Turn j bringing a flush draw

Hero bets 55 , call

River blank low card

Hero?

Is the turn still a bet when it nulifies my kicker?

Now what?
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:30 AM   #2
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

I suspect my turn bet is a mistake when the jack hits but if we check what's the plan
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:18 AM   #3
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

I'm not a fan of the preflop raise because you don't have a read on the table yet. Just call from the SB.

As played, betting flop is standard, but how can you turn a flush draw when you have AJ of hearts and turn is a Jack? I think you got the sequence wrong on how the action unfolded.

If you turned a flush draw I would probably go for either a check through or a blocking bet to see a cheap heart on river. If river was then a jack, that sucks, blocking bet/fold river.

This is sorta why I don't like to raise from the SB, you end up playing an inflated pot OOP which just sucks and puts us at a disadvantage.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:21 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

I didn't turn a flush draw the turn brought a possible flush deaw
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:30 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

& as far as pre yeah this is the bottom of my raising range in this spot (though under certain conditions I'm def raising even A10o here but vs habitual limp/folders or when a really weak straightforward player limps , or vs a late position open limp but for the most part I'd be Ajs+Aqo+KQs and 99 here) but i agree playing a bloated pot OOP is pretty frustrating and can see your point in just completing.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:00 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

I don't think i like betting the turn.

I'm rushing decisions in game and not fully thinking things through and acting as if I have a 30 second timebank at all times (lucky for those who hate people who take forever to act , which i def do). This is a huge leak i need to work on because on multiple occasions as soon as a hand was over , regardless of results , I've instantly realized a mistake that i wouldn't have made had i been thorough and thought things through. I assume this is a habit a lot of online mass tablers end up having when trying to transition to live so gonna just try and pay attention to it and take my time when an important decision arises.

K/J are like the two worse cards that could have came on that turn , and when it hit i knew that it sucked since It basically means I can't get value from worse aces but still bet anyway mainly because i didn't think things through and felt like It'll be really annoying to check and face a bet in a spot where if i call it's basically for a chop or in the hopes he decided to float which seems pretty unlikely for a 1/2 unknown.

I mean what the hell do we do on this turn? Is there value in betting , i can't seem to find it if so. Can we really c/call for a chop? Such a terrible turn , i was really kicking myself for bloating the pot afterwards but when you see player routinely limp/call pre raggity aces (i even see the "good" regs doing this , and not to take anything away from there game i just can't see how limping EP and calling a 5x raise with a suited ace is ever the correct play) it's hard to not want to raise preflop and value town them when they can't fold TPWK
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

I kinda hate playing OOP, so I'm wishy washy on preflop. Against a couple of straightforward ABC limpers, I lean towards raising. Against a bunch of limpers that include tricky players, I might just passively limp (which might be a leak).

I check the flop as a way of pot controlling; if we get 3 streets worth of betting in, we're probably in trouble. Also gives bluffy players a chance to bluff, plus perhaps saves us a street of money if we've run into a Q. We're giving pairs a chance at their two outer, and gutshots a chance at their four outer, but big deal, I'd rather do that than start building a huge pot OOP here.

As played, I probably shut down on the turn as we're getting value from almost no hands (well, I guess flush draw, but whatever) now that our kicker doesn't play. Without reads, I probably go into calldown mode. If the turn checks thru I would then bet the river for value (as pairs < A might pay once we showed weakness on the turn).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 02-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #8
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

Grunch,
I'm not raising PF without a great feel for the table, lots of hand histories with villains, and a solid winning image. As played I think your line is fine. B/F the river for 1/2 pot.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:01 PM   #9
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Re: 1/2 Aj river line

Quote:
Originally Posted by th1986 View Post
Effective stack 300

Only sat half hr ago do no real image mostly just folding

Villain just moved from another table an orbit ago has around 4-500

Hero holds aj of hearts

Action , utg limps , co limps , hero makes it 15 from sb call call

A q q rainbow

Pot 45 hero bets 27 call fold

Turn j bringing a flush draw

Hero bets 55 , call

River blank low card

Hero?

Is the turn still a bet when it nulifies my kicker?

Now what?
For me, just reading it, UTG limp should worry you a bit, especially in these games, and then he/she checks flop...why is he/she limping? Also, you only showed up a half hour ago and have you seen him/her do it yet...definitely playing super passively in this hand...I like PF raise though.
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