Open Side Menu Go to the Top
FAQ Today's Posts Search Twitter Discord
Register
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise 1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise
Post Reply Subscribe
...
07-19-2017 , 10:53 PM
#1
momo_uk
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By momo_uk Find Threads By momo_uk
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546
7-handed 1/2

Hero (UTG, 350) raises to 10 with A4ss,
V1 (UTG1, 200) calls,
V2 (UTG2, 350) calls,
V3 (BTN, 300) calls.

Flop ($40): Qs 9s 3h
Hero cbets $20, V1 folds, V2 calls, V3 raises to $70, Hero ?

V3 just l/c'd J6o UTG vs my BTN raise with 77 to $12 and a caller in between us. We checked down Jh9h4s5c5s on flop and turn and he led $15 OTR, I called and mucked. Also, he's on the second buyin because right when I sat down 10 mins ago and opened $10 UTG, he ($150) 3b to $30 in SB, BB shoved for $175 with TT, he called and lost on a J high runout.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-19-2017 , 11:18 PM
#2
DemonCoach
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By DemonCoach Find Threads By DemonCoach
enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 55
Commenting to follow. Interesting spot here. Curious to see what others think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-19-2017 , 11:31 PM
#3
momo_uk
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By momo_uk Find Threads By momo_uk
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546
Can a mod please update the thread title too (as it appears above the actual post)?
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 12:14 AM
#4
johnnyBuz's Avatar
johnnyBuz
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By johnnyBuz Find Threads By johnnyBuz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563
Call and hope V2 tags along. You could also 3!/GII to $200 which provides pretty good FE and prices you into calling it off, but this guy may be too stupid to fold a hand like Q6o.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 12:57 AM
#5
momo_uk
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By momo_uk Find Threads By momo_uk
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Call and hope V2 tags along. You could also 3!/GII to $200 which provides pretty good FE and prices you into calling it off, but this guy may be too stupid to fold a hand like Q6o.

History hands don't make Q6 likely.. he has to have AQ or better here imo.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 01:01 AM
#6
NebDanger's Avatar
NebDanger
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By NebDanger Find Threads By NebDanger
grinder
Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 673
Why are we raising A4s UTG? I mean if you're a person who hates limping and want to make your own preflop raising size instead of limp/calling I can get behind it but most of the time I think I'd rather limp and try to see a flop cheaply. Could even mix in some l/rr with the ace blocker.

As played flat and hope others come along
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 01:51 AM
#7
branch0095
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By branch0095 Find Threads By branch0095
adept
Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 928
Given your description of V3, I don't think we have much FE here. We're drawing to the nuts, and the more money we can get others to put into the pot the better price we're getting to draw. I'd flat here and at least leave the door open for V1/V2 to come along as well.

Personally I think opening A4s UTG is a bit loose, even 7 handed. OTF, being OOP in a 4 way pot with a pretty wet board, I think I'd prefer a c/c or c/r here as opposed to a c-bet lead. Leading into 3 opponents with 1/2 pot really doesn't accomplish much IMO.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 04:25 AM
#8
Amanaplan
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Amanaplan Find Threads By Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628
Good small lead w the A4 now raise him back big and get him to commit w worse Fds and do whatever he want with pairs.. you don't care if he folds them or heroes them if you size it correctly.

And fold the 77
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 04:47 AM
#9
outdonked's Avatar
outdonked
View Profile Find Posts By outdonked Find Threads By outdonked
banned
Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 547
You got drawing value to the nuts plus an over-card. I would check the flop to be able to call and draw. By betting you got nothing in return. Villain did not fold and you cannot call. You need a draw to the nuts + pair to pull ahead and bet this flop and be able to call his raise or even shove over his head.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 11:34 AM
#10
JB Clark
View Profile Find Posts By JB Clark Find Threads By JB Clark
banned
Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673
OMG just shove. Dont overthink it. Im already counting 150 in the middle, you only had 350 to start the hand, so ship it
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 02:50 PM
#11
BadlyBeaten
View Profile Find Posts By BadlyBeaten Find Threads By BadlyBeaten
banned
Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300
Weird spot; an odd raise that makes sense for 33 I guess. I think we need to stay with our hand at least 1/3 of the time.

I think default for me is go limp and see what V2 does. And probably stay limp until I get better definition. Looking to maybe get away from this if the board pairs on the next street???

Another wheel card and I probably shove the turn?
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 04:46 PM
#12
Javanewt
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Javanewt Find Threads By Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,770
I don't mind leading them on if there is a chance V2 comes along. If you think V2 is folding to the $70 raise, just raise now and try to gii.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 04:49 PM
#13
Javanewt
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Javanewt Find Threads By Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
History hands don't make Q6 likely.. he has to have AQ or better here imo.
Wait, the history hands you gave us were calling a raise w/ J6o and calling a shove that lost to TT, but I guess that could be AK.

What other history hands do you have? Are you just assuming he won't raise here w/o a premium or do you know it?
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-20-2017 , 10:38 PM
#14
momo_uk
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By momo_uk Find Threads By momo_uk
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Wait, the history hands you gave us were calling a raise w/ J6o and calling a shove that lost to TT, but I guess that could be AK.



What other history hands do you have? Are you just assuming he won't raise here w/o a premium or do you know it?

I'm assuming.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-21-2017 , 07:24 AM
#15
BackDoorFlush
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By BackDoorFlush Find Threads By BackDoorFlush
veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171
Don't open A4s UTG.

As played, 3!/GII.

Against thinking players, I prefer 3!ing to $210 (it makes our hand look more nutted). Against a brain dead V who limp calls a raise with J6o from UTG, I prefer a shove.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-21-2017 , 08:37 AM
#16
momo_uk
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By momo_uk Find Threads By momo_uk
veteran
Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
Don't open A4s UTG.

As played, 3!/GII.

Against thinking players, I prefer 3!ing to $210 (it makes our hand look more nutted). Against a brain dead V who limp calls a raise with J6o from UTG, I prefer a shove.

Do we really have any FE though once he raises flop? I think almost never. Esp with that sizing.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-21-2017 , 08:47 AM
#17
Javanewt
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Javanewt Find Threads By Javanewt
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
Do we really have any FE though once he raises flop? I think almost never. Esp with that sizing.
I don't want him to fold, but I would not shove.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-21-2017 , 02:25 PM
#18
JB Clark
View Profile Find Posts By JB Clark Find Threads By JB Clark
banned
Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673
I can think of 2 hands right off the top of my head where i shoved this flop in a similar scenario, got called, and scooped the pot unimproved. People love to fold top pair too
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-21-2017 , 03:51 PM
#19
johnnyBuz's Avatar
johnnyBuz
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By johnnyBuz Find Threads By johnnyBuz
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by momo_uk
Do we really have any FE though once he raises flop? I think almost never. Esp with that sizing.
What is so magical about his sizing? He went smaller then 3x + 1 and has only invested 80/300 (27%) of his stack.
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
07-23-2017 , 08:10 PM
#20
yummyhumanbrains
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By yummyhumanbrains Find Threads By yummyhumanbrains
journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
What is so magical about his sizing? He went smaller then 3x + 1 and has only invested 80/300 (27%) of his stack.
I don't think his sizing matters. Based on OP's reads, it sounds unlikely he raises with less than 2p+. It just doesn't seem like he's folding to a 3bet. There's not enough dead money in the pot with few 1p hands in his range to raise based on our equity alone.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
1/2: 4-way cbet with NFD facing flop raise Quote
Post Reply Subscribe
...
      
Feedback is used for internal purposes. LEARN MORE
Contact Us Privacy Statement TOS
Top
Powered by:  Hand2Note
Copyright ©2008-2022, Hand2Note Interactive LTD
m