dude, you give too much weak-tight-passive advice.


I think you played it fine OP. River play is a little villain dependent - hard to say that many 1/2 players are capable of turning pairs into bluffs so you could just c/f against a bunch of guys. against maniac/aggro kids, c/c or b/c is fine.... or just ship. Against really competent players i will check this flop some of the time too.

If he's not calling a shove with anything you beat AND not turning his JJ type hands into bluffs on the river THEN how can you do anything but B/F this river?

It's possible he flopped a set and slow played, nutted the turn and is now trapping but this is basically the only hand he jams river with when you bet. If he has 77 exactly he probably just calls the river too because these live players are soooo bad.

bet half , fold to shove, get called by worse ....... Ezzzz game

So don't fold!

If only it was actually that easy.

I don't follow. Are you suggesting c/c is your preferred line?

I have outlined reasons why b/f is my preferred line.

No I prefer a smallish bet.

However, if the reason not to check is a belief that villain will turn all made hands into a bluff by shoving then that is illogical. In that case I suggest he'd be massively weighted to such over pairs turned into bluffs and C/C probably has the highest EV. People determination to discourage bluffing is weird. You say villains range is weighted to hands we beat, suggest he'll turn them into bluffs and then suggest folding!

In reality, villains checks these hands back almost always.

I don't understand what is so hard? With no real reads other then he got coolered 1 hand but seems to have some clue, I always default back to most 1-2 players are bad. That doesn't mean he's not capable of turning hands into bluffs, I'm just not betting on it until I see it. So given this exact situation, I think your options are very simple. Either bet fold for value or check it over and guess. I'm always going with the bet here because these players are bluffing over this line you have taken almost NEVER. If you check and he checks back JJ your doing it wrong

Is it right to assume he would call me with worse? On the river that is. So let's say TT+? Because the whole problem I have with bet/fold is that my hand is pretty face up if you ask me, I mean this is a big overpair about always. How can he continue all streets with worse?
99 would make sense because he has 4 extra ''clean outs'', but lets say his range is TT-QQ, I think he 4bets me with KK/AA, how likely is a ''crying'' call out any of those hands? Would those hands continue all 3 streets post flop? Seems highly unlikely if you ask me.

If you think people fold TT-QQ here start 3 barreling more

It is face-up to a thinking player maybe, but 1/2 players are not folding over pairs because they hope u have AK...

And that's the same reason why 3 barell bluffs just dont work on this level

The same reason they wont turn their hand into a bluff is the same reason you should value bet. Your Hand may be face up to you but to them you have many hands to be bluffing with. Not too mention as well, these guy will say well I called 80 on turn I got pot odds to call now. Don't level yourself. Like te posters said above if you think these guys at 1-2 are folding here, then bluff with impunity. I think you'll find they errr on the side of curiosity and call though. Also don't assume they won't call a jam with worse, I just like the safe route myself in this spot and quite happy to get 3 streets of value for sure.

I see. To clarify, I think his range is slightly weighted toward overpairs but also includes 77 or a boat quite conceivably. I meant that villain's shoving range after we check includes BOTH hands we beat AND hands that have us beat (he won't necessarily check back an overpair although I agree he likely will). While villain's shoving range after we bet is only the goods.

Thin small value bet/fold really seems optimal to me after much thought.

Okay, lets say I am to go for thin value bet/fold. How big would this be?
Because I still have a problem with my stack and the bet/fold concept. It seems so bleh to bet 100/150 into 300ish only to fold to 100 extra.

Bet $100

I used to have a problem with this as well. Here I would bet 100. It is river play so we are obv not pricing out draws and as discussed this is clearly "thin value". So IF he is going to usually check back overpairs but probably call a small bet given HIS pot odds and the fact that YOU may be bluffing, why leave that $100 on the table? He will probably fold an overpair to a pot-sized shove. While it seems "bad" to fold to a raise for 150 more given the pot size, remember that I am concluding that a raise means we are beat almost certainly. If you agree (and you may not) then folding despite the odds is correct. This is not a tournament. The additional $150 in your stack is part of your bankroll. Save it if you know you are beat. The biggest donks in my game lose that extra bet so often because they constantly lament that they were "pot-committed" and "had to call" even though they put me on the nuts.