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Old 05-30-2012, 10:28 AM   #1
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1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Not a lot of reads on villain yet. I've played with him 2 sessions before. He went broke in first one really quick set over set. Second session havent seen him do anything crazy. Seems like a thinking Player who plays pretty straight forward.

Hero: since the transition from online to live I've been trying to "mix things" up a bit. 3bet more often because table is filled with nits, but so far I've shown the nuts near enough every showdown.

Hero 400+
villain 400

I'm in the BB holding AA.

Mp(villain) makes it 12. folds around to me and I make it 36. Villain calls.

Pot(49)
Flop: 568 rainbow
Hero bets 40, villain calls.

Pot(129)
Turn 5
Hero bets 80, villain calls.

Pot(289)
River 9
Hero?????

Flop is pretty standard bet, most live players are massive calling stations so i figured pot is fine.

Turn is a safe card for me(I think) but changes nothing for him as I really don't see a 5 in his range. So I bet a bit less in comparison with flop but still enough I reckon.

River might genuinely be the worst card in this deck. Either a 9 or a 4.

And I am not sure what to do here. I've got a little over 75BB invested and less than a pot size bet left.
I'm not sure what calls me here, and checking this river will only get checked back by worse and most likely value-shoved by better.

I want to exclude sets because I think he'd play them faster on the flop, but we're certainly deep enough for him to play 67s, 87s and I can see him calling 3bets with this.

I don't think I'm looking for monsters under the bed, but I'm also not sure wtf to do in this spot being this deep.
I was considering checking turn for "pot control" but I think I had the best hand until the river. So in the long run I would be wasting money this way.

What do you think, and is my thinking flawed?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #2
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Heading to the flop the pot was around 72, not sure where 49 came from. Probably b/f the river because he seems straight forward.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Based on your description of the opponent, I’m checking the river. I think C/C or C/F depends on your read as well as your perceived image in the eyes of the opponent. If straight-forward he is likely checking back an inferior pp except for KK. If your image has leaned aggressive, perhaps he raises KK earlier in the hand.

Potential losing hands that call your lead on the river are QQ, JJ, and TT. TT may not actually call, read-dependent. There are more hands (99, 88, 77, 66, and sc combos) that have you beat so I’m probably C/F to most bets from an ABC-type.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:19 AM   #4
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

I just realised I made a big mistake on typing down the hand, so sorry. The pot size and bet sizing is way off, I copy pasted this from my phone but for a different hand. I'm sorry.

Mp made it 8, and I made it 24. Sorry guys, mixed up 2 hands.

Mp(villain) makes it 8. folds around to me and I make it 24. Villain calls. <--- is the correct line.

Cant edit my first post, bleh.

Last edited by Hicham009; 05-30-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:21 AM   #5
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

I still see there being a lot of overpairs in his range. I'm concerned with how the hand played out though here. I feel like he will sometimes show up with a slowplayed 88 or 66. If the turn bricked out like a J,Q,K,A we would have a better idea where he stands because normally that's where he'd be making the raise to hope to get stacks in now or on the river. I don't like checking as he will be checking behind a lot too with those overpairs.

Bet/fold like $125-150 here I'd say.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:32 AM   #6
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Okay, so I've got 73 BB invested so far. if I bet lets say 125-150(62,5-75BB) I've got a little over 50BB left. I do not see how that's going to be profitable AT ALL.
If I'm betting this river, shouldn't I be shoving since villain has about 125BB($250) left, which is less than a potsize bet anyways?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:49 AM   #7
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Why would villain call a shove with an overpair on a paired board where the one card straight comes in? BTW its hard to keep up with a post when you dont even have the correct info on the first post. Pot size on the thread said ~300 so betting around 125-150 isn't that bad considering we had like 156 invested already. It's called a thin value bet. If he raises over the top you can fold with *some* money as opposed to no money because his raising range will be limited to straights and boats.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:49 AM   #8
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

I think the river is a check unless you have a read. Not too much you can get called by and you're beat way too often.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:56 AM   #9
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Yeah I already apologized for the 1 mistake, and seeing as how I can't edit it I cant really do anything about it now can I?

I still don't see how 150 into 290 with about 100 left behind makes sense.


If I'm given 4 options, Check/Check, Check/call, Check/fold or Bet/fold. Bet/fold would be the last option.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #10
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

I'm sorry I even offered advice then, lol. I go for thin value when I play so I don't leave free money on the table. This seems like free money as villains range should be overpairs normally. Also you could try 3betting more preflop to narrow your villain's range as well.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon View Post
I'm sorry I even offered advice then, lol. I go for thin value when I play so I don't leave free money on the table. This seems like free money as villains range should be overpairs normally. Also you could try 3betting more preflop to narrow your villain's range as well.
Go for thin value when you play your hand like a bluff catcher, you are doing it wrong.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #12
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ns71nct View Post
Go for thin value when you play your hand like a bluff catcher, you are doing it wrong.
Ok, so what's your plan? Check/call? How much are you willing to call? Because I can tell you villain is most likely shoving this scare card. Bet/folding at least leaves you with some money if you're beat. Also when the action goes check/check and the villain shows TT-KK do you not think you are leaving money on the table?
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:45 PM   #13
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Quote:
I'm sorry I even offered advice then,
There's no need to become a little bitch about it, I am asking for advice, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I think he's checking back almost all overpairs. But I can't see a point in betting 3/4th of my whole stack over 3 streets only to fold to a river shove getting what 7:1 on his shove?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:27 PM   #14
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Not being a little bitch at all my friend, I'm offering constructive criticism and you're basically trashing my play. I understand it's not the particular play you'd like to make, but as I said in a previous post what are you doing after you check? How much are you willing to call? etc. Would you like a bet/fold of 100?

I'll watch this thread for the results later hopefully after more feedback
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #15
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Re: 1/2. 200bb deep, clueless on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon View Post
Not being a little bitch at all my friend, I'm offering constructive criticism and you're basically trashing my play. I understand it's not the particular play you'd like to make, but as I said in a previous post what are you doing after you check? How much are you willing to call? etc. Would you like a bet/fold of 100?

I'll watch this thread for the results later hopefully after more feedback
I'm sorry if I came across as trashing your play, did not mean it like that at all as I am absolutely clueless what the best play would be. Just don't think bet/fold is the best play at all. Might be wrong here, but just don't think it is.

I was/am leaning way more towards check/check or check/fold. I dont think I'm getting called by worse, and don't think I beat much if he bets.
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