$1/$2 - 165bb bet leads to an exercise in hand reading - Page 3 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum - Live Poker Low-stakes NL

TAOxEaglex · 07-06-2012, 05:19 PM

I'll just add in here that when described villain raises you, you better have at least a set or a 15 out draw if you're gonna 3bet. Standard aggro play with bottom or top/bottom 2pair or NFD isn't going to cut it since old man raising ranges are heavily skewed towards sets and top 2.

IKON THE HOLOGRAM · 07-06-2012, 06:54 PM

hero has combo draw villain has set

sauhund · 07-07-2012, 03:45 AM

results?

animal kingdom · 07-07-2012, 10:15 AM

HH is messed up.... If button straddled how can the sb act after the button. Also sb is essentially utg now soooo did the Sb open raise to $20 first to act??

Anyway hero should have a set here given we should expect this guy to
Stack off with TPTK given how "light" he gets it in, especially after he check raises. He just put in $160 he's probably never folding. His range is pretty wide but from 67dd,A10, nut flush draws, sets, rarely a goofy played overpair

hfrog355 · 07-08-2012, 09:59 AM

HH is correct - button straddle does not force action to immediate left (in this game). It's really an amazing game to use the button straddle because action proceeds as normal, but you get to play from the best position, with inflated pots AND you get to close the action preflop (action jumps from CO to SB and straddle acts after all other players have completed their action). When the game gets deep, the button straddle becomes a huge edge.

As for results...

Spoiler:

When V raises a stick, I go with my thought that he can't ever have a real hand since I would have expected him to bet pretty much anything with reasonable equity on his first action and raise (as I mentioned earlier, I should have left my re-raise out of the OP). I snap fold air when V turbo ships. I know I'm going to get flamed for picking a terrible spot here, but I think this isn't a terrible play. I think the c/r is going to be a re-steal often enough that I'm not just straight burning money and another reasonable percentage of the time he's going to have something like AT that is "finding out where he's at" or some other nonsensical reason for c/r. My line looks really strong (if you don't notice that the bets are about 60% of the pot each time) on the 3bet and will be a set way more often than it will be anything else.

monkeymaps · 07-08-2012, 11:05 AM

Hero- either the reads you give in the OP and villains actual tendencies are way off and therefore I'm not sure what help you can get in this thread

or

you thinking process is pretty far off here, a player you describe as fit or fold and passive c/r the flop and your first instinct is that he cant have a strong hand?

unless proven otherwise pretty much most rec players range when they c/r is 2pr+ IMO, and I need to see them do this with a big draw before i would really even consider it a portion of their range.

hfrog355 · 07-08-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeymaps

Hero- either the reads you give in the OP and villains actual tendencies are way off and therefore I'm not sure what help you can get in this thread

or

you thinking process is pretty far off here, a player you describe as fit or fold and passive c/r the flop and your first instinct is that he cant have a strong hand?

unless proven otherwise pretty much most rec players range when they c/r is 2pr+ IMO, and I need to see them do this with a big draw before i would really even consider it a portion of their range.

Yeah, I see what you're saying and perhaps I'm off some, but he's not 100% "has to smash it" to continue. He might view AJs as a fit hand, but not there yet. He isn't always passive post with his draws and isn't necessarily an abc player - just old and has some of the same tendencies.

You're probably right though - this may not be the best spot. I was curious to hear thoughts though.

FWIW - I asked him about the hand a week later and he couldn't remember exactly what he had (not a smartass response given his age) but said his hand was pretty nutted. I guess that means he played a set weird and thought he was pot controlling?

CallMeVernon · 07-09-2012, 08:29 PM

So, just to take a larger view of this hand--you spewed $330 with absolute air because you were convinced that it is incorrect for him to checkraise the flop with any real hand.

If you are going to spew to him this way, you are making it correct for him to checkraise you instead of betting out!

hfrog355 · 07-10-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeVernon

So, just to take a larger view of this hand--you spewed $330 with absolute air because you were convinced that it is incorrect for him to checkraise the flop with any real hand.

If you are going to spew to him this way, you are making it correct for him to checkraise you instead of betting out!

Pretty much, yeah.

It wasn't so much because I thought it was incorrect of him to do, but rather that I didn't think he would play it like that. As you have succinctly pointed out, it's not an incorrect strategy IF he knows I will try to move him off with air. I made a move at the pot because a) I didn't think he would play his value hands like that and b) I didn't think he'd make a move after me.

ikestoys · 07-10-2012, 10:10 AM

I hate these types of threads. It's hard enough to make constructive comments when we know hero's hand. This type of thread is 99% BS.

ikestoys · 07-10-2012, 10:11 AM

And don't bluff big at 1/2 NL lol. It ain't a good idea very often.

hfrog355 · 07-10-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

I hate these types of threads. It's hard enough to make constructive comments when we know hero's hand. This type of thread is 99% BS.

So sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, ye of the jiggly avatar. I'll try to post higher quality posts here in LSNL from now on.

OP asked about what the perceived ranges of V and hero are. That's really all I was looking for.