Need some insight from my 2 plus 2 friends

8/16 9 max game running pretty loose. My image is very aggressive, I have a mindset of when in doubt Raise!

Hero is in MP with 910

EP bets out, +1 Calls, HERO Calls (knowing that at least 2-3 more players will cold call), CO Calls, Blinds Call. (12sb)

My preflop thought is that suited connectors play very well multiway and I'm certain I'll atleast get 4 other players in the pot with which is usually my strategy with suited connectors 56s and up and KJs, Q10s, J9s type hands. The higher amount of players the more suited connectors and suited gap connectors I play.

Flop: 108J
Blinds Check, EP C-bets, Call, HERO raises, CO calls, SB folds, All Call. (20sb)

I'm raising for value here, I have middle pair and an OESD with 10 outs to improve to what I'm thinking will be the best not mentioning the runner runner flush draw. I have around 40% equity in the pot and the amount of non folding players and what's already in the pot is laying me lots of money and implied odds. AK hands would have 3! Pre flop, Q9 hands would have 3! The flop, so my only real worry is KQ non suited cards which my hand has atleast a 15% edge on (I think) the obvious flush draw is another possibility which I'm making them pay for on ever street to chase. So far so good?

Turn: 6
BB checks, EP bets, +1 folds, HERO 2 bets, CO folds, BB calls, EP 3!, HERO 4! and BB calls!!! (Huge Pot 22BB)

I know EP is a better poker player than me and I've seen play 30-60 and the 50-100 in surrounding casinos. He is a LAG and he's very intelligent and plays lots of poker. You can tell just by the way he bets his chips that he is a long time player of the game. Maybe he has a slow played a strange line for a set? KQ?Something worth 3 betting on the turn and I'm almost 100% that BB has a diamond draw. I make the decision to slow down and just C/C to the end on a safe river.

River: 7
BB fires, EP does and obvious crying call, Hero knows he is beat and folds.

Showdown: BB shows A4 and EP mucks and I don't get to see his cards.

Big questions are:

With a OESD with middle pair & Nut Flush Draws with 4 or more payers should you be raising for value and attempt to pump as much money as possible in the pot on the flop?

With my Turn card giving me the flush draw should I have 4 bet to try and drive out the BB and get more money in the pot?

What is the minimum number of players you need to value bet good draws on flops?

Turn 4 bet is a spew.

Folding for one bet on the river is probably a mistake.

hi maganda, i'd recommend you check out the book 'small stakes holdem' by miller malmuth and sklansky for some good basics on equity, pot odds, etc

'weighing the odds in holdem poker' by king yao is also good

I've read the books but am still a bit confused. Like this hand for example; I don't know if my logic is right. And need so guidance from a more analytical group of players. I ran it through poker stove and got this based on the range I think the Villian has.
(Equity, Win, Tie)
Player 1: 44.8% 44.8% 0% [Ts9s]
Player 2: 22.7% 22.7% 0% [Ad4d]
Player 3: 32.5% 32.5% 0% {QQ+, ATs+, KQs}

Board: [Td 8s Jd 6s ?]
Deal To: River
Dead Cards: {}

Further more with my frustration of this hand... I really think the Villian has AK spades in this spot so I ran it and got this

(Equity, Win, Tie)
Player 1: 50.0% 50.0% 0% [Ts9s]
Player 2: 21.4% 21.4% 0% [Ad4d]
Player 3: 28.6% 28.6% 0% [AsKs]

Board: [Td 8s Jd 6s ?]
Deal To: River
Dead Cards: {}

So with pgcounty believing that the turn bet is a spew I'm Getting Like 1:1 odds on this hand for the win with this board on and for every one bet bet I "spew" I'm getting 2 in return. I'm new to the more analytical realm of poker and just want to spot check my work and see if it's correct. Thanks for everyone's input and advice.

If EP is raising pre flop, you should say EP open raised instead of bets out to avoid confusion.

I think you need to take into consideration that EP probably has a strong hand or draw to be C betting MW on this board texture. You talk about your odds and implied odds in this hand, however, you don't seem to be considering your reverse implied odds. You also mention that there is an obvious flush draw out. If this is the case, then your hand strength is further reduced if you are behind.

It's important to take into consideration these and other factors and discount some of the outs you are giving yourself.

Why would you want to raise the turn to drive out BB? He's not folding anything you want him to so just call and let him pad the pot those times you improve.

I also think you need to widen the ranges of the villian's in your analysis.

I would have just called the flop and played my hand like a draw. I would call the river. The pot is huge and there is the possibility you are chopping or maybe BB is doing something nutty.

I'd expect 9-10s to have about 33% 3 ways vs reasonable ranges 45% seems optimistic.

I'd call flop

When you put in ******ed hand ranges, yeah, you are going to have 50% equity vs. two people when one of them bet/3bet the turn on that board.


You are losing on the turn near 100%.

Turn raise is close, turn cap is bad.

River is a call.

Ouch. I guess I can take the comment about "retrarded hand ranges" and log that in the constructive criticism compartment. What hands would you give him?

Sets, stronger pairs with a draw, two pair, already made str8s.

Hands that are beating your hand. He can have AsKs in his range, but it can't be his entire range.