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Strange Situation

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12-03-2016 , 08:19 PM

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,433

i'm playing online poker on ignition, a $1/$2 game with 6 players. players are typically loose on this site but i dont have good reads as I just sat down.

I am UTG with QQ and I raise. button cold calls. sb 3 bets. I cap and everyone calls.

Flop is AT6 rainbow, I bet and both call.

Turn is K, everyone checks.

River is some brick low card. SB bets and I ?

I'm getting about 8.5:1 on the call but the button is behind.

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12-04-2016 , 02:41 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Seems like a shrug fold, though you can argue call this and fold JJ is fine.

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12-04-2016 , 03:38 AM

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Shrug call to me. Only pay off 1.5 big bets post flop is a win to me; absent reads, Sb could be donking random air and I don't want to be exploitable.

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12-04-2016 , 04:03 PM

TheDarkKnight

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

Seems like a shrug fold, though you can argue call this and fold JJ is fine.

Really? Call QQ. Fold JJ. Those hands have basically identical value in this situation.

I think paying off here is fine - especially since online players in short games bluff more often (than live players in full games). You should win more than 1 in 9 times - when the button folds. When he calls, you're almost never winning, but he also neglected to raise flop or bet turn last to act, so he shouldn't factor into your calling decision much here. You can pretty much eliminate an A from his range and the only Ks he could really play this way are KJ and KQ, and you have two blockers to the latter.

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12-04-2016 , 06:45 PM

jdr0317

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Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

A better way of saying it is fold JJ sometimes, because our range is basically QQ, JJ. If we start deciding he's value oriented, we start folding more.

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12-05-2016 , 01:45 AM

TheDarkKnight

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,499

He said he's basically absent of reads so it's really just a never fold situation.

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12-05-2016 , 03:21 AM

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,326

trivial fold imo
SB bluffing into 2 players seem a bit of a stretch on that board and that we are good, tho calling here might make BU fold a K and catching a bluff from SB.
But the "if" needed to call seem to add up pretty quickly.

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12-05-2016 , 12:25 PM

Bill Haywood

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,154

Capped pre, anyone who does not have an ace or better is terrified of that flop.

With two villains remaining we are toast. They can't both be waiting for tens to improve.

A weak ace just decided he's good, and you still have someone behind you.

Another line to consider: check flop and then reevaluate. It may look like AK or TT that is trapping and may check around and help you to reach showdown. Or if it goes bet raise, you know what to do.

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12-05-2016 , 07:46 PM

TheDarkKnight

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,499

I think you guys are drastically overestimating (or underestimating?) the online small stakes players on Ignition. QQ is plenty capable of being good here. I would expect to be good here more than 11% of the time. Yeah, he's probably not bluffing, but we really don't know anything about either of our opponents! It's highly unlikely the button has you beat, so it's okay to call here and start gathering some book.

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12-06-2016 , 11:34 AM

#10

DougL

Too helpful for this post

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 21,810

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

Can you back that up by providing some ranges? Show how the preflop ranges + hands that would have raised by now + hands that would have folded by now results in >11% of the time our 3rd pair is good. Equilab has some nice features that would help (the pie things on the right).

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12-06-2016 , 01:31 PM

#11

Bill Haywood

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,154

Rethinking the check around on turn. Against unknowns, I think river is a call for a single bet against unknowns.

Did I actually suggest checking flop sometimes? Nah, not against two, with draws present. A bet regularly takes it.

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12-15-2016 , 12:35 PM

#12

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

bet the turn

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12-24-2016 , 11:38 AM

#13

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight

Really? Call QQ. Fold JJ. Those hands have basically identical value in this situation.

That doesn't matter, the point is that you should have some sort of balance/randomness to your strategy, and if you feel like you need to call "some of the time" in this spot then calling with QQ and folding JJ/TT is the way to implement that.

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12-24-2016 , 11:39 AM

#14

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

And on the internet I would never fold this holding.

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12-25-2016 , 06:39 AM

#15

Montrealcorp

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 13,326

welcome back jesse, merry christmas

...

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12-25-2016 , 09:05 AM

#16

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

I never left, really. I just started playing Clash of Clans and Boom Beach! But thanks!

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12-25-2016 , 04:48 PM

#17

TheDarkKnight

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 2,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

And on the internet I would never fold this holding.

I get your point above but this quote is where my head's at. You're not folding JJ or TT either.

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