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Old 06-04-2010, 08:55 AM   #1
avoidthe9to5
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Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

imo - This is a very interesting hand played between myself and a very good professional player.

utg is EXTREMELY loose passive terrible. Old balding dude who only ck/r 2nd nuts or better. The only weird thing he consistently does is donk/call donk any 2nd pair or better one pair hand in 2 bet pots.

villain is a very good winning professional live player and is staying in the same house as me during this vegas trip. We have developed 0 history together so far, as this is our first session together.

UTG ol utg, Hero looks down at KQ and 2!, villain calls in the big blind.

flop - T75

Villain donk bets, UTG calls, hero ...

---
Just finished my all night session at the 15, will read & post my thoughts and the rest of the hand after I wake up before heading back out to the bellagio (I should remember)

Last edited by avoidthe9to5; 06-04-2010 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:31 AM   #2
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
Villain donk bets, UTG calls, hero ...
calls. Unless he wants to get 3-bet while still drawing and (possibly) simultaneously folding the fish.

I'm also gonna hazard a guess that some chips made "space debris" in this hand.

Last edited by leo doc; 06-04-2010 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:35 AM   #3
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

hah ^_^ we are both of the opinion, as are the majority of the OTR household in lv that we both played this hand expertly on all streets.

gn!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:13 AM   #4
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

It's close but I think I raise. You are 1/3 to make flush and 3 players, plus you have two overcards and a backdoor straight. Advantage of calling is trapping fish when you hit.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:45 AM   #5
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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It's close but I think I raise.
Would you raise if you knew that there was a staggeringly high probability of getting 3-bet?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:02 AM   #6
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

Is villain who I think it is?

Agree with leo doc, just call the flop. I think you should just call a K/Q turn, and raise a .
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:06 AM   #7
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Is villain who I think it is?
I'd bet two 1/2 stake buy-ins in WSOP events that it is.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:51 AM   #8
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Would you raise if you knew that there was a staggeringly high probability of getting 3-bet?
We have 15 outs. For some reason you think Hero's pair may not be good. W/ just a flush draw I would prob call here.

(need a popcorn smiley)
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:05 PM   #9
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by albacorela View Post
We have 15 outs. For some reason you think Hero's pair may not be good. W/ just a flush draw I would prob call here.

(need a popcorn smiley)
Obv. player dependant but it's pretty standard to c/r a pair here. Good chance he has either a FD, OESD or a set.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #10
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

Just call. As I have been asked a million times when I raise a donk in this spot........

What are you trying to accomplish with a raise?

We have a strong draw on a hand that has no showdown potential yet. Raising can open us up to a 3! and blow away the LP UTG who we would like to keep calling to pad our draw. If we hit on turn we can raise the field. Much better than calling now and having everyone check to you on the turn or be faced with the 3! on the flop and potentially losing LP.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Is villain who I think it is?

Agree with leo doc, just call the flop. I think you should just call a K/Q turn, and raise a .
For some reason I thought UTG open-raised and you 3!. This changes ranges drastically. You may have to call down UI if UTG folds or consider turning K-high into a bluff on the river if checked to.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:05 PM   #12
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

I am going to go out on a limb and predict that villain has 89 suited hearts and this is going to be one huge pot with the LP moron getting clobbered in the middle on each and every street.

Would be so lol funny if hero rivers the Jh.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:24 PM   #13
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by albacorela View Post
We have 15 outs.
I think you're lucky if you've got 9 or 10 against the described villain. (At least I damn sure hope so. )

Quote:
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Obv. player dependant but it's pretty standard to c/r a pair here. Good chance he has either a FD, OESD or a set.
^ This.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:35 PM   #14
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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For some reason I thought UTG open-raised and you 3!. This changes ranges drastically.
How does it change your flop play?
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:26 PM   #15
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

for the record I am not the villain and my thoughts on the hand are that it really depends on what BB thinks of you. what range does he think you'll assign him if he donks? if I were donking the big blind here it would only be when I had a monster and only if I thought the two players in the hand were incapable of figuring that out. he should assume you'll put him on a monster, which means he should do this with stuff other than monsters, but it's so bad strategically to do it with stuff other than monsters that I think the only conclusion we can draw is that his range is super strong and he think's you won't think that.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:35 PM   #16
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

Yah that's why I just c/r everything.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:52 PM   #17
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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for the record I am not the villain
Whew! Glad Cap'n didn't take me up on that bet.

Quote:
...if I were donking the big blind here it would only be when I had a monster and only if I thought the two players in the hand were incapable of figuring that out.
I feel better already.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:27 PM   #18
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

I'm raising. What, we expect the loose passive fish to fold his hand to 2 more bets after putting money in on the same street? Lulz, IMO.

3-ways, I'm raising and I'm just gonna go ahead and cap if BB 3! it and the fish is still in. I'll slow down on the turn if he donks again and I haven't hit anything.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:33 PM   #19
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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I'm raising. What, we expect the loose passive fish to fold his hand to 2 more bets after putting money in on the same street? Lulz, IMO.
Lulz @ pretending that doesn't happen a lot, IMO.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:45 PM   #20
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Lulz @ pretending that doesn't happen a lot, IMO.
Meh... maybe I just don't play live enough. Against bad loose passive players at .50/1 online, I don't think they fold often, but mmmv.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:12 PM   #21
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

People call one bet with complete air all the time and then fold for 2 more bets. The complete air part is the important part honestly.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:35 PM   #22
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by Captain R View Post
Is villain who I think it is?
highly unlikely

Quote:
Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
I'd bet two 1/2 stake buy-ins in WSOP events that it is.
[x] ship for next year imo. I'll take both half stakes for a whole
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:39 PM   #23
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by jesse8888 View Post
for the record I am not the villain and my thoughts on the hand are that it really depends on what BB thinks of you. what range does he think you'll assign him if he donks? if I were donking the big blind here it would only be when I had a monster and only if I thought the two players in the hand were incapable of figuring that out. he should assume you'll put him on a monster, which means he should do this with stuff other than monsters, but it's so bad strategically to do it with stuff other than monsters that I think the only conclusion we can draw is that his range is super strong and he think's you won't think that.
completely agree, but with no history with villain, and with a LP chaser in between I believe it's safe to assume he's being extremely honest here. He wants to trap the fish. I look like a ~15/13 tag this sess, doing nothing out of line.

I think this has a ton of merit jesse, but I think the fish purifies his actions.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:53 PM   #24
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

Quote:
Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
imo - This is a very interesting hand played between myself and a very good professional player.

utg is EXTREMELY loose passive terrible. Old balding dude who only ck/r 2nd nuts or better. The only weird thing he consistently does is donk/call donk any 2nd pair or better one pair hand in 2 bet pots.

villain is a very good winning professional live player and is staying in the same house as me during this vegas trip. We have developed 0 history together so far, as this is our first session together.

UTG ol utg, Hero looks down at KQ and 2!, villain calls in the big blind.

flop - T75

Villain donk bets, UTG calls, hero calls

Turn - T75K

Villain bets, UTG folds, hero ...
Villain is very obviously trying to trap the loose passive fish in between my nitty pfr range and his monster. With the chasing fish in between, I felt villain was being extremely honest.

Villain's range in my mind -
Sets - extremely obvious and most likely possibility
2pair - possible and still very likely
flush draws - His possible flush draws donking are less likely as I can see 4 of the same suit. He also may not even donk out his flush draws here; if they are nonshowdownable he possible will just ck/r them. Long story short, I heavily discounted this option.
oesd - possible, but unlikely villain is donking out to trap the lp guy with a nonshowdownable oesd. I doubt villain will donkcheck the turn after whiffing with a hand like this.


flop - T75

Villain donk bets, UTG calls, hero calls

Turn - T75K

Villain bets, UTG folds, hero ...
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:54 PM   #25
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Re: Slow Playalong - live 15/30 - interesting hand vs a good player

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Originally Posted by avoidthe9to5 View Post
[x] ship for next year imo.
Only with the Cap'n. We do, after all, have a modicum of history.

Quote:
I'll take both half stakes for a whole
Not to worry, I'll buy you the whole steak.

Back to the hand:

I'd raise OTR and and likely call kangster.
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