$4/8 game. I have 88 in middle position. Extremely loose young guy limps in EP, I raise. Extremely loose old guy cold calls on button. BB calls.

Flop is 8TJ, with two clubs. BB checks, young guy checks, I bet, old guy calls, BB folds, young guy calls. Turn is Q of clubs, an awful card. Young guy checks, I bet. Old guy calls, young guy check raises. I wasn't sure what to do, since he was really unpredictable and had played crazy for the last hour. He carried on a constant running commentary of nonsense on every hand he played (which was about 80% of the cards dealt to him). I thought he probably had a straight or flush, but also thought there was a small possibility he could c/r with just two pair. I finally 3 bet, because the pot was large and I wanted to push out the old guy if he had a single club. The old guy thought for a while and then folded. The young guy started laughing and saying, "You have a flush? You have a flush?" which led me to think he didn't have one. He called. So I think he had two pair or a straight. The river was a blank. He checked and I bet.

Later on I thought re-raising the turn was stupid, because the young guy's range was heavily weighted toward straights and flushes, after he check-raised me on the turn. Therefore I would probably need the board to pair on the river anyway, and shouldn't mind the old guy calling. Is this correct thinking, or in a pot this big, is it worth it to 3 bet the turn and push out the third player, in case the young guy has only two pair? I think he'd only have a worse hand maybe 20% of the time here, but he was kind of nuts. Given that the board didn't pair on the river, is this just a check behind? Thanks.

I would just call. The loose young guy could have tons of flush draws(unless you had a read that he would CR the flop with these). At lower limits I find that even "agro" players don't play their draws Strongly a good portion of the time. He could have a straight.

It's a pretty big parlay that you are ahead and the guy behind you has a club that he will fold. I think just letting him overcall is fine. Maybe he'll call and hit trips on the river making you more money.

I think turn 3 bet is good, but I would take a free showdown.

What smaller pocket pairs is he continuing with on this board that you hope he hits on the river for trips?

I like the 3 bet. As you said it improves your chances to win if the BB holds a club, and gets you a free showdown against the loose player.

Turn 3bet is spew imo

This player shouldn't fold worse on river but if he could betting is fine

If he did fold its possible he cred with the nut flush draw, which would fit his image

Not a pocket pair, pretty sure he means a board pair. But unlikely someone is going to call with one pair on turn after this much action from two other players even without a threebet, unless he also has a big club.

3-betting turn here is terrible. The first bet was very thin already.

+1

I was referring to any 8,T,J or Q.

I would not expect him to call with a pocket pair to hit a set on the river.

BTW...a set is when you have a pocket pair and one of your cards hits the board.

Trips is when you have one card like a 7 in your hand and two sevens hit the board.

Thanks for the responses, guys. At the time I thought the 3 bet was good to try and force out a single club, but if I isolate myself against a made straight that is a dubious accomplishment. I didn't consider just checking behind on the turn but maybe that was the best play, given how ugly the turn card was. If we were heads up I think it would be a different story.

Just chk behind turn. If board pairs and he has a straight or flush your going to get 4 bets in OTR with the best hand regardless.

If you want to be a good LHE player assessing value of while playing a hand is key. 3 betting turn is spew and betting river is even worse. My guess is you value owned yourself against 9x, so don't repeat this error in the future.

Yeah, he had 79 offsuit. Cackled really loudly while he stacked the chips. ;-)

I wouldn't feel too bad, he probably thinks you're a psycho now.

As for the hand, with the board having a 3-flush and 4-straight, I'd imagine you're behind a majority of the time and letting the 3rd player in pads the pot to give you better odds for your draw. I'd call the c/r. Honestly, it's hard to say whether I'd bet or check the turn the first time, given that I know the resulting action.

Sometimes I bet turn here, sometimes I check; depends a lot on the players and their ranges, and maybe tells if I can pick up anything.

I think the turn bet against only two players is standard.

The bet is fine. The 3! Is not.

Turn 3 bet is simply terrible.

To expand, plug in a range of hands that contain any hand that plays this way (including hands like Q8o, which is an insane assumption to think he'd x/r this hand for value against 2 people, especially given the player types found in 4/8). In an overly-optimistic case, you've approx 33% equity vs your opponent.

You aren't playing against a single part of an opponent's range, you're playing against the entirety of it. Obviously if you knew for certain that your opponent had two pair, then your play is great. But you don't, and in fact it's incredibly unlikely he is x/r the turn for value with a worse hand than yours.

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that if villain was a TRUE* maniac the three bet isn't that terrible, but once you kick the 3rd player out you have to check the river. That river bet is horrendous after the turn play.

* If you've only played live low limit then this guy is probably NOT a true maniac. What did he have the last time he check raised the turn crazily? What was your plan if you get raised again?!

An important point is that you only gain the equity of the third player if the raiser does not have a club nor a straight.

This is a scary board. He could have a flush. He could have a straight. If he is crazy and aggressive he might have only one or two pairs maybe with a draw.

If he has a straight or flush, you have some outs.

I think betting the turn is fine. If somebody has one spade, make them pay to draw out on you. When you get check raised on the turn, I think you should just call down, unless the board pairs on the river.

If the player is a weak player and he bets the river, you might consider folding unimproved, but against an aggressive, unpredictable player, you need to call the river unimproved.

This