Yep, I was considering it. Though I'm not currently coldcalling with 54o or 72s (or even Q5s) in the SB, these hands are the bottom of my BB defense range against standard 18% LJ open and one coldcall. I might fold them, if PFR has tighter range. But I'm always calling these hands in the BB in pots with more than 2 Villains (due to massive pot odds I'm getting) regardless of the strength of PFR's range.

Now coldcalling 1.5 small bets in the SB is not the same as calling one small bet in the BB. However deciding whether or not particular coldcall is profitable should still be the matter of pot odds.

So how many players do I want in the pot before I start coldcalling in the SB with suited trash? I don't know the answer to that question, but getting 8:1 sounds intriguing (that of course doesn't mean that it would be correct to do so).

You should act like you have no money in the pot in the sb


Calling raises with Q5s and 89o is not good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But you do. Ignoring your SB investment makes a poor estimation. This dramatically changes your implied odds. Calling 2 sb into a 10sb pot is very different from calling 1.5 sb into a 10sb pot.

I call both. Q5s is easy, 89o is closer.

I wouldn't even call JTo here. I'm not sure how you would even consider 89o.

Q5s seems a bit better, but still seems to be a thin call to me.

i call any two suited and many connected hands (87o, J9o, Q9o). we have good relative position and are getting a great price.

Either I am playing way too tight or you guys are crazy!

If asmitty is really playing any two suited then it's probably a bit of both.

We're getting around 8-1 and have good relative position in a 6 or 7 way pot. I'm totally comfortable playing a bunch of suited crap with good implied odds, especially since the pot will be large enough for us to realize all of our equity the vast majority of the time.

But hands like 78o and J9o? Really.

I think folding JTo is a bigger mistake than calling J9o in a 6-7 way pot. But yeah, I agree it's probably fine to tighten up with offsuit connected hands.

Start reading a book i had at home for ever .
Roy cooke / play of hands .
Not bad .

But than , around hand 5 ....

Limpers : if the put money in pf, they wont fold no matter what happen after pf .
So they would probay call a cap when back to them

20/40$
SB ( Hero) AKo

Pf: 2 limpers calls, BU raise , Hero ( Roy) calls ??

Seriously, how the hell can you not 3 bet.

Yes you will miss and have sometimes c/f the flop or b/f flop but who cares.
I mean the amount of money you loose because they wont fold pf is humungous imo.
True you will get outdrawn more often but i am pretty sure it is not not a justification enough to not raise pf just because we would have great relative position posftlop or a bit tougher to play postflop.

Right ?

I just cant see not 3 bet pf would ever correct unlesss u face a total nit and even than ...

Calling there is bad. Lol bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 bet best without some very particular reason why not. But not because the limpers will call any raises after having money in. It would almost always be better for hero if the limpers fold.

Yeah of course, it was his main point .
But even if they would 100% call, you make so much money equity wise pf vs their ranges, you loose way too much value by not 3 betting.

I mean it is a basic concept in SSHE right?
What makes limping weak hands is not the hand itself but the many times you limp with them and call raises with them too often .

There's really nothing to take away here, except that Roy Cooke is the posterboy of all the leaky, fundamentally flawed old nits you find in the local 20/40 game that scoff at all the young crushers who raise limpers with AJs ("don't they know it's a drawing hand?").

Can never be too careful

I know we should call a lot of hands in the SB after several limpers. I've heard people say call all but the worst like 73o, 82o etc.

Are you still calling big little combos like Q3o, J3o?

Got a read on the big blind? Readless I'm only folding the worst of the worst. If he's aggressive I'll tighten up a bit.

Lets say 4 players limp, a TAG SB raises and we are in the BB.

I'm trying to get a handle on what hands I should fold here that I would call with normally if the TAG had opened UTG and had 4 callers. In other word, how does my poor relative position affect my decision?

I'll throw a few hands out there: Q8o, 56o, A8o, J9o, 97o,

I'm still calling all pairs and suited hands.

I'd fold the 56 but call the rest. You have ****tier position here. If he raised utg you'd get to check the flop and see all the action.

I'm calling all of those. FWIW I'm not folding any of those hands from the BB for one bet, if there are 3 or more players already in the pot.

I might fold some of these hands against really tight OR and one coldcall or against a limp and tight izoraise. For example, I'm folding Q8o and 97o against ~ 17.5% OR and one coldcall or against a limp and ~ 22% IR. But with more players in the pot, I'm calling both of them regardless of the size of PFR's range and regardless of my relative position to PFR in postflop betting rounds.

If BB is loose-passive and bad and the rake is not horrible, you could probably get away with limping any two cards in the SB after several (3+, maybe even 2+) limpers. By passive I mean that he raises less than 10% of the time. And against such a tight raise range, I wouldn't even mind limp-folding the very worst hands.

I'm allergic to queen high 4 gappers in a raised pot. I think you're potentially dominated on both cards. Hot cold, it is probably one of the better hands. In bad relative and absolute position, I hate it. Cold be the old-school live nit in me talking, but flop a Q on a Q96 board, SB bets happily and the whole world is behind. How do you feel?
This is so true. IMO, this spot is much worse than UTG raises, several people cc, and we're in the BB closing the action. Even preflop, we're cold calling with everyone still to act. 4 streets of this.

all of these are playable but 97 and q8 are most likely to cost you lots when you misjudge the situation - if i had to choose between the 2 i play the q8

with hands like described the reverse implied odds can become more important than the equity calculations, so tread cautiously and be mindful of overall table aggression

it can be pretty tricky deciding the best line when we flop top pair with these type of hands