A pf question, trying to get a sense of the forum.

[Jon_locke]

If you are cold calling JQs here, would you also cold call 22, 34s, 79s? Just curious, and obviously fold fwiw

[timmer]

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

UTG is a predictable old nit. SB is a lunatic who's been opening w/ any 2 all session. BB is almost the same. They each spew nearly equally badly.

UTG opens. His hand is face up, imo: AA, KK, QQ, nothing else. Folded to you OTB w/ QJ. The blinds are almost certain to call whether or not you call. Call or fold?

if the blinds are almost certain to call I call.

id love to flop good against these two spewtards.

[Howard Beale]

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

If you are cold calling JQs here, would you also cold call 22, 34s, 79s? Just curious, and obviously fold fwiw

I haven't thought about that but I will now. I looked down at the cards, looked at the blinds, and thought 'I really, REALLY want to play against those 2. I know where I stand right now, I'll call.'

Originally Posted by timmer

if the blinds are almost certain to call I call.

id love to flop good against these two spewtards.

That's why I called. Consensus is against it. I wonder if that would change if folks would've watched both blinds for a couple of hours. SB had already ATM'd 3-4 times, BB had dropped 3 racks and was in tilt-o-witz mode.

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I'll relate what did happen: I called, both blinds called. Flop came 10 hi w/ 2 's. Check to UTG who bet, I figure 'to heck w/ it' and raise bec I think so little of the blinds and know that UTG will slow down, both blinds call. Turn J:diamond, checked thru, river blank, checked thru, UTG shows QQ ftw.

I dunno, I do this sometimes. If it's awful it doesn't feel too awful.

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J: Do you mind if I speak to you about it?

[Chasqui]

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

I wonder if that would change if folks would've watched both blinds for a couple of hours. SB had already ATM'd 3-4 times, BB had dropped 3 racks and was in tilt-o-witz mode.

I know what it feels like to want to play against the blinds you refer, so if the blinds call 60% and 90%, our QJs is 15% to win vs. their 13%, 14%, (the reason to play is they are terrible) but we are fighting against 56% equity for the opener if he's that tight.

The uphill battle against the opener is too steep IMO.

[ninefingershuffle]

I'd rather 3 bet than cold call here.

[that_pope]

We provided the math, we all said no. You still want to do it. Can't teach an old dog new tricks?

[Howard Beale]

Originally Posted by that_pope

We provided the math, we all said no. You still want to do it. Can't teach an old dog new tricks?

Someday I am very sure that I will catch you making the exact same call.

[pig4bill]

Originally Posted by that_pope

We provided the math, we all said no. You still want to do it. Can't teach an old dog new tricks?

Doesn't the math presume he goes all the way to the river every time? His hand is fairly polarizing wrt to good or bad flops. If he folds bad flops, doesn't that affect the math because he goes to the river only on good flops?

[Chasqui]

Originally Posted by pig4bill

Doesn't the math presume he goes all the way to the river every time? His hand is fairly polarizing wrt to good or bad flops. If he folds bad flops, doesn't that affect the math because he goes to the river only on good flops?

If you are referring to Hero, if he doesn't see the river then his equity is 0%. If you are referring to villian, he's almost never folding (he has QQ+) so he's realizing most of his 55% equity.

[that_pope]

Originally Posted by pig4bill

Doesn't the math presume he goes all the way to the river every time? His hand is fairly polarizing wrt to good or bad flops. If he folds bad flops, doesn't that affect the math because he goes to the river only on good flops?

Then he is putting in more money to realize his equity, like he did where he raised the river, turned a pair of Jacks, and checked down and still lost.

[that_pope]

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

Someday I am very sure that I will catch you making the exact same call.

I will give you a stack of whatever game I am playing if you see me call an extremely tight UTG raiser on the button with QJs in a limit hold'em game where no one else has called between us. Deal. Complete freeroll for you.

Stipulation: I can't be drunk, but even drunk I would at least 3 bet I hope.

[logans rungood]

Originally Posted by pig4bill

Doesn't the math presume he goes all the way to the river every time? His hand is fairly polarizing wrt to good or bad flops. If he folds bad flops, doesn't that affect the math because he goes to the river only on good flops?

If so, then he has to abandon a large fraction of his equity on BD flops. 30% (I believe) of his winning flushes or straights will be runner-runner, but, in the best case, he will only be getting 11-1 (and maybe as bad as 17-3 or worse) on a TXX or A9x5x flop, when he needs closer to 15-1.

So, at 16% hot/cold equity, he only loses 9/25BB with the PF call if he commits to making another bad call on the flop; if he's folding all flops without at least a GSSD or a pair, then he's losing substantially more pre.

[timmer]

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

I'd rather 3 bet than cold call here.

not me IF I catch good I want to get two bets in OTF thats going to be hard to do If I 3Bet pre.

[timmer]

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

I haven't thought about that but I will now. I looked down at the cards, looked at the blinds, and thought 'I really, REALLY want to play against those 2. I know where I stand right now, I'll call.'



That's why I called. Consensus is against it. I wonder if that would change if folks would've watched both blinds for a couple of hours. SB had already ATM'd 3-4 times, BB had dropped 3 racks and was in tilt-o-witz mode.

-----------------

I'll relate what did happen: I called, both blinds called. Flop came 10 hi w/ 2 's. Check to UTG who bet, I figure 'to heck w/ it' and raise bec I think so little of the blinds and know that UTG will slow down, both blinds call. Turn J:diamond, checked thru, river blank, checked thru, UTG shows QQ ftw.

I dunno, I do this sometimes. If it's awful it doesn't feel too awful.

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J: Do you mind if I speak to you about it?

I think you played it fine you got value where value was avalible took a free card. I mean you could of V bet but Id rather save that bet for the river where if I hit I could derive a multiway call from those tards who think IM stabbing. I mean you could VT the turn probably but against EP nit I think FC is better. BC it keeps spewtards from charging you and makes them think a C/R is in their future.

granted spewtards play funny.

[Howard Beale]

that_pope is certainly right about one thing: Sometime back he mentioned that if you wanted a long thread make it a pre-flop one. This thread's a hit!