***The official KK flops an Ace thread***

[Howard Beale]

Thread title is like a stab in the heart. I'm going to take a pill.

[Jon_locke]

I would never consider folding either

[Richard Hurtz]

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

I would never consider folding either

That's just ridiculous.

[Howard Beale]

Originally Posted by Richard Hurtz

That's just ridiculous.

Not coming from him it isn't.

I've probably been giving up too easily in these spots and it's been bothering me.

[Jon_locke]

Originally Posted by Richard Hurtz

That's just ridiculous.

I think folding is bad and super exploitable (even by players than don't know what game theory Js), Without some read than villains only donk TP+ here.

I mean they can just donk their entire range of hands that teh would otherwise c/c the flop with (for same price) and crush us If we are folding KK here

[AKQJ10]

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

I think folding is bad and super exploitable (even by players than don't know what game theory Js), Without some read than villains only donk TP+ here.

I mean they can just donk their entire range of hands that teh would otherwise c/c the flop with (for same price) and crush us If we are folding KK here

The first time we do it against a certain group of opponents, it shouldn't matter that it's exploitable. What matters is whether most unknown Villains are donking into ace-high flops with less than top pair. Obviously, once they see us do this once at the table, many sentient Villains (but not all) will assume we had KK whether we had JTs or 99 or whatever and be more likely to take shots.

[shuinthehouse]

saw a hand at Foxwoods 4-8 last weekend that I don't think warrants its own thread but this thread might be a good place

4-5 limpers, I fold CO, solid (for 4-8) button raises, SB folds, BB (good player for 4-8) has KK and 3!, everybody calls, 6-7 see the flop.

Axx rainbow, BB bets, 3-4 callers, button raises, all call, maybe 12-14 BB in the pot now.

Turn blank, checks to button who bets, BB calls. Anyone else calling here? If you are calling, are you calling one on a blank river also (3-4 others called the turn)?

[stinkubus]

Originally Posted by shuinthehouse

saw a hand at Foxwoods 4-8 last weekend that I don't think warrants its own thread but this thread might be a good place

4-5 limpers, I fold CO, solid (for 4-8) button raises, SB folds, BB (good player for 4-8) has KK and 3!, everybody calls, 6-7 see the flop.

Axx rainbow, BB bets, 3-4 callers, button raises, all call, maybe 12-14 BB in the pot now.

Turn blank, checks to button who bets, BB calls. Anyone else calling here? If you are calling, are you calling one on a blank river also (3-4 others called the turn)?

If the pot is 6-7 handed and 3bet pre I don't see how I'm folding on any of the big bet streets, provided I can continue for one bet. The pot odds are just way too good. 13:1 on the turn, 15:1 on the river. You'd have to be damn near 100% certain that your villian wouldn't continue betting OTT with anything less than Aces.

If 6 or more players take a 3bet or 4bet flop and I've got a big pocket pair I'm almost always going to see the showdown. I'd probably only fold KK here if a raising war broke out on 4th or 5th street, or the board was something truly scary like 4 to a straight and 4 to a flush (and I don't have a flush). With 15:1 pot odds I only need to win 6.25% of the time to break even. If your opponent is at all capable of bluffing or betting 3 streets with a hand that looks good but you can still beat (like QQ) then there's no way you can fold KK getting those kind of odds.