Villain is a very good and somewhat laggy 2+2er; we both know who the other is. He opens CO and I 3bet the SB with 87cc. BB folds, villain calls (and I suspect he calls his entire range).

Flop K95, I think there is a FD. I bet he calls.

Turn 4r. I bet he calls. I intend to c/f river UI.

River Ar. I change my mind and decide to fire one last barrel.

I had an interesting visit to Oceans on Saturday night, my first time there. That 8/16 is so different than the ones in LA, both because it is the top limit in the casino (and thus draws some aggressive players who might play 20 in a different place) and because of the full kill.

At any rate, that point aside, while the pre-flop decision seems... ahem... aggressive, and it is probably correct to x/f the turn unless you have a flush draw, I think as played the river is a super-obvious bet. You are at rock bottom of your range, the ace is a clear scare card, and you may have some fold equity against hands like 77, 88, and TT-QQ.

I play there sometimes. I would enjoy meeting any of you guys. There is a 40 80 there on Fridays fyi. My opinion nowadays is to not isolate good players OOP. In my session there, I found there to be plenty of slots and getting in this spot with a good player (I assume) seems unnecessary to me

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Is this against wacky?
Id probably opt not to get into it against him oop here, but once you get to the end I think the bet is a must.

Interesting. I would lean toward the opposite. Do we think he would fold any pair here? If so what's the best hand he would fold

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If you're gonna tree bet the nut eight high I'm pretty sure you must fire the cannon here.

Not a fan of the 3-bet from the small blind. I like mixing it up against better than average players that are obviously opening wider ranges - but not from the small blind. I doubt this raise shows a profit long term and if you guys have significant history and he knows you're capable of plays like this, he's calling most - if not all - of his paired hands through the river.

As played though, I'd bet river and expect to lose most of the time and get some folds from busted draws that are prob better than 8 high.

Preflop is on the aggressive side but fine. Agree that river is super obvious as played.

I would donk check this flop though. There aren't a lot of turn cards we can continue barreling on. Immediate flop FE is poor: The only hands that fold are junk like Q8s, and maybe AT/A8-.

As played, I really dislike barreling this turn. I think most pairs and gutshots call, so our FE is bad. If we have to bluff, there are better hands to bluff with, like TJ/JQ/TQ or flush draws. Checking turn also doesn't kill future bluffs: If villain checks behind, we can still bluff if the river is a A/Q/J/T.

champion

sup smitty?

I think preflop is too loose but once you do it the river barrel is a must.

I would barrel this river even if its a deuce...he has up to 48 combos of QJ, QT, and JT in his range (unless he bluff raises some of those on the turn).

Yeah that's why we gotta barrel off exactly. We cannot let him check back pocket picture and win

I think this needs to be explored more. What it he bluffs pocket pictures trying to fold 88-?

Why do you suspect he calls his entire range? I thought the modern play was, when it is heads-up, to call your entire range when you are out of position. But he has position on you. He never 4! in this spot?

I've started incorporating a call-entire-range play when I raise preflop and get 3 bet and everyone else folds and I'm out of position against a thinking player. It seems to be a useful tool to use. But if I'm in position, or it is not heads up, or the opponent is bad, then I 4! the top of my range.

If you're going to play this hand this way, you're fairly obligated to triple barrel, particularly a potential scare card like this. However, I think you want to reconsider the preflop strategy against competent opposition, and realize that 8/16 play differs from 40/80 play at Oceans significantly.

Blind stealing at 8/16 is not as appealing given the proclivities of the blinds to over defend, which implies that a correct adjustment on my side is to play tighter and favor value hands that have showdown value.

At least that's my opinion.

Thoughts on the differences between the 8 and the 40 game at ocean's? I have played the 8 game and going to play the 40 in a couple months

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Same game

I decided that this hand deserved some more in depth analysis than "bottom of your range so bluff ldo." Being at the bottom of your range does not make a bluff profitable. Fold equity does. So I looked into the combos. I gave the cutoff a very generous ~43% opening range, which should favor bluffing the river because of all the leftover junk. Then I had the cutoff call everything on the flop. Then on the turn I had the cutoff bluff raise his combo straight flush draws and top pair or better. When the Ace fell on the river, he was left with this range, which most likely calls the river bet:

AQ-A2, QQ-TT, Q9s, J9s, T9s, Q9o, J9o, T9o, 98o, 98s, 97s, 88-66, Q5s, 75s, 33, 22,

and this range, which most likely folds to the river bet:

QJs(no fd), QJo, QTs(no fd), QTo, Q8s(fd), Q7s(fd), Q6s(fd), JTs(no fd), JTo, J8s(fd), J7s(fd), T8s(fd), T7s(fd), 87s(no fd), 86s(no fd), 76s(no fd).

This range has 272 combos, with 58 likely folds, which would be a folding frequency of 21.3%. Looks like a clear bluffing opportunity with these assumptions.

However, if we have the cutoff bluff raise flush or straight draws on the turn, it becomes a check fold for the small blind on the river. If we have the cutoff bluff raise the river with just 6 combos of his 8xs, and call with his 16 combos of QJ, then it becomes a check fold for the small blind on the river.

I basically gave the best case scenario for bluffing the river and it's still close. I imagine that if we tighten up the cutoff's opening range, let him bluff raise just a bit more, and or call down a bit light, then it becomes a clear check fold for the small blind on the river.

I agree this is a hand to bluff with However I dont think it will be all that successful because A good player will expect you to own an ace and to know that you think that he prolly doesn't have one since he would have moved with it by now. in fact you might have checked an ace rather than sacrificing its value as a come card. So you prolly will get called by anything he has come thus far with anyway.

my question to you is if you knew this line of thinking existed and were true would you have bet the turn against what is such a considered set of ranges?

*g*

The only way you're going to get some amount of anything out of this is if you tell us why you changed your mind, and why you didn't want to bet at first.

Fold pre. Bet every street, IMO.

I agree that if we had an ace we should have checked so that we can realize its full value (our opponent should know this) but we still have to barrel the river here in case we can trick him into folding JTs.

I'm new to lhe so I'm not so versed in the basic nuances of limit but heres my thinking(let me know if this is correct or not) but if the co is a reg it doesn't make sense to put in bets with no showdown value or real draw when you give the CO position on you he has the option to gain the maximum while loose the minimum, meaning he can value town you to death with draws, including Ahi hands or he can check call you down with 66-TT, once you check the turn it is better to check the river even on the Ahi rvr since you can't rep much other the AK-AJ and it's not likely he'll fold to one bet,,, in the future don't 3bet so light oop let me know what you think