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Old 07-22-2012, 04:06 PM   #1
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[Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

I’ve played my fair share of loose low-stakes live LHE, but I didn’t come up through the ranks of online games so I tend to be a little lost in tighter games.

This $8/16 started about half an hour before and has been slowly filling up.Everything here is a small sample read.

CO is a young Caucasian, seems like a tough TAG. BB is the shift manager of this small poker room propping to get this game filled up. He seems to be very straightforward.


Preflop (6-handed)
Hero is SB with A5

All fold to CO
CO raises
Fold
Hero ???

Even putting Villain on 30%, this seems too weak to continue. What’s our playing range here? A9, A2s, any two Bway, 54s, 64s?

Sorry for a really newb question, but are we 3betting all of that range here?
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:33 PM   #2
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

It's a 3-bet or fold depending on what you think his range is.
We can typically 3-bet a "steal" raise from the SB with any Ace, and that would be my default.
However, if you are a bit new to the live poker, and to this game, it is fine to fold and wait until your better situated. It's not likely giving up much.
btw, Villian's range is likely closer to top 50-60% if he is indeed tag.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:29 PM   #3
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

If the cutoff is at all good id probably fold all the way up to a9
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:32 PM   #4
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

If you're not sure how to play a guy OOP, I think fold is fine here, unless he's a ridiculous 50%+ opener from the CO. then I'd probably three bet and get ready to barrel/barrel.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeakWetter View Post
, Villian's range is likely closer to top 50-60% if he is indeed tag.
This doesn't sound right.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
This doesn't sound right.
It is 6 handed....

None of you consider a call here?
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:10 AM   #7
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

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Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
None of you consider a call here?
Repeat after me: "When first to act after a potential steal raise, I will never just call from the sb. I vow to either fold or 3-bet."

Say that 10 times.

Spoiler:
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:16 AM   #8
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
It is 6 handed.
Do you think a live player in the CO plays differently in a 6 handed game than if the game were full ring? Should he?

Quote:
Even putting Villain on 30%, this seems too weak to continue.
If the guy were a tough online TAG, I pull up Equilab and look at a X% steal range. I'm not sure here. Could you suggest a range of hands? Online poker tends to make the TAGs play alike. Some live players tend to over adjust to SH situations -- "blinds come around so fast, have to play a lot of hands". I'm considering a few things

-- How does my hand do against CO range hot/cold? (Equilab)
-- How well does CO use position?
-- How does CO react to my 3 bet?
-- Does CO get fit fold/vs a 3 bet and how SD bound is he?
-- How does the BB play?

A guy who gets fit/fold vs. you three bet, who plays his hand face up, and who doesn't play position well makes this a 3 bet. A guy who opens 33+,A2s+,KTs+,A8o+,KTo+ and plays well in position makes this a fold. Add a BB who will defend any two and a meh positional CO and maybe you call, especially if both are not as SD bound as they should be and if both miss clear value bets.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
Repeat after me: "When first to act after a potential steal raise, I will never just call from the sb. I vow to either fold or 3-bet."

Say that 10 times.

Spoiler:
I generally don't/ won't. It was a question not a suggestion. Lol

But I think call >3! Here with this hand. It is a fast fold IMO with how bad our position is.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL View Post
Do you think a live player in the CO plays differently in a 6 handed game than if the game were full ring? Should he?

If the guy were a tough online TAG, I pull up Equilab and look at a X% steal range. I'm not sure here. Could you suggest a range of hands? Online poker tends to make the TAGs play alike. Some live players tend to over adjust to SH situations -- "blinds come around so fast, have to play a lot of hands". I'm considering a few things

-- How does my hand do against CO range hot/cold? (Equilab)
-- How well does CO use position?
-- How does CO react to my 3 bet?
-- Does CO get fit fold/vs a 3 bet and how SD bound is he?
-- How does the BB play?

A guy who gets fit/fold vs. you three bet, who plays his hand face up, and who doesn't play position well makes this a 3 bet. A guy who opens 33+,A2s+,KTs+,A8o+,KTo+ and plays well in position makes this a fold. Add a BB who will defend any two and a meh positional CO and maybe you call, especially if both are not as SD bound as they should be and if both miss clear value bets.
In my experience players are vastly more aggressive/SD 6 handed and less live. There seemed to be confusion as to cutoffs opening range in this thread from 30-60% as well... you find that out by either getting to showdown or hoping someone else does.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #11
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

I fold this if all I have to go on is "probably tag". A9-A8o, A6s-ish would be about my line. I also don't think we should be 3-betting a hand like QTo, 87s, etc unless we know villain likes to fold postflop.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:18 PM   #12
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowTires88 View Post
I generally don't/ won't. It was a question not a suggestion. Lol

But I think call >3! Here with this hand. It is a fast fold IMO with how bad our position is.
Calling here gives the BB (who is straightforward according to OP) 5:1 odds to continue closing the action. Now we're in a multiway pot, out of position, with a hand that doesn't play well multi-way. How would you handle an A high flop with no obvious draws in that position?

A5o and other similar Ace-rag hands play best heads up because they can win at SD unimproved. Ace-rag loses a lot of value to RIO, so being heads up mitigates this. As you transition to mid stakes games, facing a LP raise vs any competent TAG or LAG opponent your mindset needs to be 3-bet or fold. Calling, especially with a hand that plays poorly multiway, is never a good decision in this spot.

Back to the hand, I 3-bet here if you're really suspect of his LP raises. Folding isn't a big deal here either, its really a hand you want to play vs the maniac lag players or the pre-flop laggy players who tend to play fit or fold after the flop. Also, if you've been super tight for any noticable period of time, you will get some fold equity from your table image.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:05 PM   #13
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

3! Or fold.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:22 AM   #14
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

vs a normal tag prob fold A5- without a good read
vs a tough tag def fold A5 here

You said you think he's a tough tag, if so l'd prob start 3betting him with A8/9+,A6s+ somewhere around there for AX hands. But fold A5.

A tough tag will usually have around 30%-40% opening range from the CO.
Anything higher would normally make him a LAG.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:20 AM   #15
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Re: [Noob] 8/16 SB defense range vs agg cutoff

Play tighter live as well; rake really favors folding in spots like these.
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