Hey all,

I'm primarily a live NL player. Been beating 1/2 for a couple years now and have started moving up to 2/5 and beating that so far as well.

The casino where i play my NL games is a little over an hour away from where I'm living, which isn't so bad, however during the month of August there is a much more convenient alternative.

I'm not sure if any of you are from the Toronto area, but for one month every summer there is a temporary casino set up at the CNE that has Limit poker (5/10,10/20,15/30 and 25/50)

I'm basically making this thread looking for some advice on the adjustments a NL player such as myself needs to be making to beat these games?

I've played 2 sessions so far of 5/10 (am rolled for 10/20, but don't want to move up until i'm sure i have a firm grasp of the game) and I'm stuck a buy in, small sample size i know, but i figure it's best to make this thread now rather than drop a couple more buy ins figuring it out myself.

The player pool seems incredibad from what i've witnessed, so i figure this game has to be beatable.

basically so far I've just been tightening my preflop raising range to only strong value hands, as every pot, raised or not is going 4-6 way to a flop. And i'm basically waiting for the effective nuts and betting every street for value, and chasing my draws when i have the odds to do so (which is pretty much always lol)

is there anything else i can be doing to beat this game? It seems pretty high varience to me, with 4 runners often going all the way to the river, so maybe i just need to ride it out a few more sessions and positive results will follow?

thoughts? comments? concerns?

anything is helpfull

the book 'small stakes holdem' by miller malmuth and sklansky is gonna be right up your alley.

lhe is a high variance game and one buyin (20 or 30 big bets? 50? dunno what you buy in for) is not statistically relevant. usually 200 or 300 big bets are where a downswing starts to become relevant.

welcome to the forum and hope to see you around with more questions! please read our FAQ also btw

I've been buying in for 20 big bets, is that pretty much standard? should i be doing more?

I think i'll post a couple hands later on so i can see if my logic in certain situations is correct

A 20 big bet buyin is pretty standard for more serious players. You can buyin more if you want but be aware that you might out yourself to the rest of the table as a "serious" player since casual players usually buy in on the short side. Top up when you get down around 10 big bets or so.

I'd second BBB's recommendation for SSHE since it's written for exactly the type of game you're describing.

One addition to your preflop strategy: Consider adding implied-odds type hands (small pocket pairs, suited connectors and 1-gappers) to your range when you're in late position and there are several limpers ahead. Unlike in NL, you won't be able to stack someone when you flop a set, but getting several streets of value in multi-way pots is a big part of beating this kind of game. Think of implied odds as "wide" (bets from multiple opponents) rather than "deep" (one opponent's whole stack).

.

That last is very well put.

At the CNE I prefer starting with 40-50 big bets; it's a very high variance game. And for that reason no one thinks twice about someone with lots of chips. And you'll feel better about your game if you don't have to reload often while riding out the swings. In any case, so far as outing yourself: you're better off if you're getting at least some respect for your bets. (Though at 5-10 never count on folding anybody! Especially not at the showdown.)

I also recommend moving up if you possibly can. I find 5-10 very hard to beat because there are so many callers that it's impossible to read where you are in the hand (and the rake eats your profits up).

20-40 is much softer there than you might think.

the rake may be a factor, but the rest of this is mistaken thinking.

Hey, and all you need is $15000 more in your bankroll to play it!

Agree with BigBadBabar. The wrong belief is so common, we put a great post by Bob into the stickies at the top of the forum. Games with too many callers are the best games, and if you can't beat them you're unlikely to be able to beat tougher games. Even if you somehow could beat tougher 20/40 games, you'll be in the best 20/40 game and have to quit because you can't beat an actually good game. When the game gets great, you should giggle and plan to crush. Thinking otherwise shows you a clear place to get better at poker, and that's great because we all want to get better and the how is sometimes unclear.