I think this is a hole in my game and I would like y'alls option on how to play these hands. I am mostly playing 8/16 half kill, fairly loose game with average players and maybe 1 fish per 9 handed game.

Let's assume 4-5 people see an unraised flop and you are in the big blind with 10 8 off and the flop is 873 rainbow. How do you play this hand? Lead out? Check raise? Check call? Check fold? And more importantly, why do you play this way?

Thank you!!!

I usually lead out here. A lot of hands that are behind will call, and there aren't a lot of hands that are ahead of you here. Your hand has reasonable value and it gives you cover for betting out with flopped sets, etc.

If the small blind leads out, I'll raise...that's one of the few spots where you can thin the field, and I'm trying to get heads up with position on the small blind.

If the last limper bets a LOT of pots, I might go for a check raise- again I'm trying to thin the field and get heads up against a player who I'm likely ahead of. Otherwise, I'm not a fan of check raising the flop. The main effect usually ends up that everyone else slows down on the turn, so unless that's your goal it generally doesn't help. In a passive game you're better off just betting.

I'd never check fold here. If I bet out and the passive players behind me end up capping, I can cheerfully bet-fold.

Agreed with 20dragons. If a lot of passives are in MP with an aggressive player in LP, a x/r can work. Otherwise I just bet out.

One fish per 9 handed game? The toughest LHE game in the world at almost any stakes! (the table can't beat the rake with only one fish) Move up to 40/80 where you'll be killing it: guaranteed more than one fish per table and rake isn't an issue.

Yeah "average" players are unbeatable.

check hoping to checkraise or check3bet for value and protection

Seriously?

I get it in an agro game, but not here. Why woukd you 3 bet?

I would just bet in this game

Donking out gives you a roughly 2% chance of winning this hand. I check w leaving all three options open depending on how action goes by the time it gets back to me.

It depends on several things.

1. Where is the preflop raiser?
2. What are the ranges of the various players in the hand?
3. Is the preflop raiser over aggressive on the flop?

For example, if the preflop raiser is on the button and likely to make bad continuation bets AND has a wide range, then you should go for a check raise to try and clear out the field. If he's in the middle and unlikely to bet you need to donk.

This is a question that does not (absolutely does not) have a wrote answer.

and it changes drastically if you have T8 on a T73 flop.

OP did specify an unraised pot. But those are definitely things to consider in a raised one, and still somewhat applicable to an unraised one, with tweaks.

crap. I read raised. On the hand as described I donk and don't think it's close.

Good. When I read your first reply I knew it was bec you'd thought 'raised pot.'

Howard, there are two posters in this thread that could use your expertise with the term "donk" as it pertains to betting.

I'd be happy to share it except I still don't know what it means, tbh.

IF NOBODY RAISED PREFLOP, YOU CAN'T DONK THE FLOP!!!

ding ding ding!!!

And now my running gag comes to an end.

CR

if its gets checked around then bet any non Ace turn

I generally lead this out. But it seems to me that the weaker your top pair and the larger the field, the better the argument is for checking and evaluating, for several reasons:

1. Your pair is more vulnerable. If you lead out, it's for pure value. It's very hard to get people to fold, because the pot is big and a lot of players will have unpaired overcards in their hand. Thus, if you bet and get several callers, just about any turn card that doesn't give you 2 pair or trips is going to be potentially bad-- overcards can hit your opponents, pairing the undercards can give someone trips, and any other card completes someone's straight or 2 pair draw.

So when you lead out, you are getting lots of value, and if you hold on for dear life, you win a big pot, but you do nothing to protect your hand. A check-raise, on the other hand, could thin out the field, clear your outs, etc.

2. Weaker top pairs have less equity when there are a lot of opponents. Someone could have flopped two pair or better, or top pair with a better kicker, and they can make you pay dearly because on this board you generally are going to have to call down a raise because of the possibility of missed draws. By checking, you will get the information as to what your opponents do before deciding how to act.

So there are definitely arguments for checking and then either calling, raising, or even folding based on the size of the pot, the number of bets you face when it comes back to you, and who the bet is coming from.

Thanks for all the replies.

I typically bet out, but the players in this game will rarely fold (nice right!??) and by the turn, the pot is large enough that they wont fold turn either. So by betting out, you have to hope to improve or pray for running deuces because any over card seems to hit something.

As we all know, when you are running good, the dealer can put an A and K on the turn and river and you scoop a nice pot. But running bad, it doesn't matter what the next streets bring.


I have been checking more often and check raising of possible in these situations. I don't know if it has made much of a difference or not. I also feel like I bet out too much and trying to mix up my range of the hands I am representing a little bit more.

I realize it's not technically a donk. But it always feels like one lol.

That's what she said.

if the first is true, then the second is very unlikely/near impossible to occur

Really? Early limp, button call and the blinds come along? Is this that uncommon?