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| Small Stakes Limit Discussions about small stakes Texas Hold'em (from 2/4 to around 15/30) |
08-04-2012, 03:38 PM
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#1
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 501
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Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
This hand happened a few weeks ago, and I never gave it much thought, other than misplaying the turn. But I've discussed the hand a little bit, and thought about it some more, and wondering if I might've made more mistakes than I realized. This was a $4/$8 game.
The game had become short handed, as a bunch of people were taking breaks or what not. I believe we were 5 handed, but it's possible it was 6. I have 55 UTG and raise. UTG+1 cold calls me, and I believe one of the blinds did as well (this part is fuzzy to me, but I don't think it's significant).
Flop is 5  2  2  (hurray!)
Checked to me (assuming the blind was in fact in, lol). I bet, villain raises, folded to me, and I call. I had this idea that I wanted to checkraise the turn, but my problem is that I wasn't sure what turns I wanted to checkraise. I tend to get a little ambitious and too preplanned in my hands to slow down and give them a little more thought.
Turn is 3
I check, he bets, I raise, he calls.
River is a T
I bet, he calls.
He has A  6  .
So a couple questions here...
Is 3-betting the flop something I should be considering here? This actually did not even occur to me until today. My reasoning is that 3-betting might be deceptive, and allows me to lead any turn.
Secondly, as played, is leading the completed flush on the turn the standard line I should be taking? I was very annoyed at myself for not having led the turn, because I figured he would've raised me if I did, and I could get my 3-bet in. However, in hindsight I wondered if checkraising might not be as devastatingly bad as I thought, as it could represent my turning a flush and checkraising him, getting a possible 3-bet out of him.
Of course this might be sort of results oriented too, after seeing his hand. I am a little surprised that he only called me down once I checkraised. I know he views me as a tight, straightforward player (because I'm a tight, straightforward player, lol), but he would've basically had to put me on exactly 55 with a UTG raise, or possibly 33, I guess.
Sorry for the long post. I tend to get a little wordy. Thanks in advance if anyone responds 
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08-04-2012, 05:19 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 4,034
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Three bet flop pretty much. Fast playing is the new slow playing etc.
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08-04-2012, 06:24 PM
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#3
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 128 area
Posts: 907
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
So he turbo popped overs /flush draw, but b/c'd when his flush draw came in?
Anyway, only question is the flop, I think turn (c/r) is fine.
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08-04-2012, 06:53 PM
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#4
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 501
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
So he turbo popped overs /flush draw, but b/c'd when his flush draw came in?
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Yeah! Isn't that weird? How do I not get 3-bet here? The only reason I even got to see a tabled hand on the river is because I think he wanted to show the table how he had saved himself money.
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08-04-2012, 07:02 PM
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#5
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Most interesting man on 2p2
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Not deserving of an undertitle
Posts: 9,805
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Nice to see you again, Rita. 3-bet the flop with the fd on board.
You doin' good?
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08-04-2012, 07:09 PM
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#6
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 501
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by leo doc
Nice to see you again, Rita. 3-bet the flop with the fd on board.
You doin' good?
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What a great memory you have, Leo! I figured I would be a noob in posting, since I didn't post much to begin with!
I actually stopped playing limit for about two years and played NL during that time. Came back to limit because it's a lot more fun! Money is easier to make in NL at these stakes, but when it's all for fun anyways, doesn't matter all that much
I'm doing well  thanks for asking! Hope you are as well, and nice to see that you are still an active poster 
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08-04-2012, 07:28 PM
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#7
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old hand
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the merge gaming network
Posts: 1,310
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
3bet the flop so that villain can 4bet and then k/r the turn. if you've got a read that villain will free card you with strong draws, i would consider donking the turn if he's r/capped the flop.
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08-04-2012, 07:59 PM
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#8
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 501
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Aww man, now you guys are making me think and come up with more questions!  Kind of neat, because until today, I thought it was a pretty standard hand, and that it was just the turn where I should've led, and that was it.
Okay, so the consensus seems to be to 3-bet the flop. Does this mean leading the turn, or still going for a checkraise?
I wish I could guess what the villain would've done on the flop to a 3-bet, because I have some other questions that depend on how my 3-bet flop would've played out.
Rodeo - The game I play allows for 5 bets on each street. If he had 4-bet the flop, do you 5 bet? Or do you call to c/r turn? Or do you 5 bet and lead turn?
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08-04-2012, 08:25 PM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: location ,location.
Posts: 1,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RitaNg123
Rodeo - The game I play allows for 5 bets on each street. If he had 4-bet the flop, do you 5 bet? Or do you call to c/r turn? Or do you 5 bet and lead turn?
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Most casinos allow HU action to be uncapped. If so, you could at least 6-10 bet the flop depending of the villian tendencies.
If action is indeed capped, keep in mind that you can only 3bet the turn if you bet it. Turn check raises tend to freeze the action.
It's interesting that if you are up against trips or better, he may not give you too much action if you play passive fearing you may fold. Let him know that you like your hand.
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08-04-2012, 08:37 PM
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#10
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old hand
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the merge gaming network
Posts: 1,310
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RitaNg123
Okay, so the consensus seems to be to 3-bet the flop. Does this mean leading the turn, or still going for a checkraise?
Rodeo - The game I play allows for 5 bets on each street. If he had 4-bet the flop, do you 5 bet? Or do you call to c/r turn? Or do you 5 bet and lead turn?
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if you 3bet the flop and villain just calls your 3bet, then you should bet the turn. it would take a very special read to know that villain will bet your hand for you (i.e. bet when checked to on the turn).
i think i would 5bet the flop because like i said, you can't know for sure that villain will bet the turn for you.
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08-04-2012, 11:20 PM
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#11
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centurion
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 100
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Villain is free carding and betting an ace for value and not folding unimproved. As to him showing his cards... he's showing because he wants it to look like some giant cooler. He's very very superstitious. I didn't know he tabled you didn't originally tell me that!
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08-05-2012, 09:22 AM
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#12
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newbie
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Without going into deep analysis, I'd 3 bet the flop and bet out on the turn. He'll have to raise the turn and you can get in a 3 bet there as well. Most likely he puts you on an over pair and not 55 or 33 here (at least until you 3 bet him on the turn). And if he doesn't read those hands, he may even 4 bet his A-high flush. As played, your check-raise screams "i can beat your flush" which is why he didn't consider raising you.
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08-05-2012, 01:18 PM
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#13
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adept
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 'murrcah.
Posts: 792
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RitaNg123
This hand happened a few weeks ago, and I never gave it much thought, other than misplaying the turn. But I've discussed the hand a little bit, and thought about it some more, and wondering if I might've made more mistakes than I realized. This was a $4/$8 game.
The game had become short handed, as a bunch of people were taking breaks or what not. I believe we were 5 handed, but it's possible it was 6. I have 55 UTG and raise. UTG+1 cold calls me, and I believe one of the blinds did as well (this part is fuzzy to me, but I don't think it's significant).
Flop is 5  2  2  (hurray!)
Checked to me (assuming the blind was in fact in, lol). I bet, villain raises, folded to me, and I call. I had this idea that I wanted to checkraise the turn, but my problem is that I wasn't sure what turns I wanted to checkraise. I tend to get a little ambitious and too preplanned in my hands to slow down and give them a little more thought.
Turn is 3
I check, he bets, I raise, he calls.
River is a T
I bet, he calls.
He has A  6  .
So a couple questions here...
Is 3-betting the flop something I should be considering here? This actually did not even occur to me until today. My reasoning is that 3-betting might be deceptive, and allows me to lead any turn.
Secondly, as played, is leading the completed flush on the turn the standard line I should be taking? I was very annoyed at myself for not having led the turn, because I figured he would've raised me if I did, and I could get my 3-bet in. However, in hindsight I wondered if checkraising might not be as devastatingly bad as I thought, as it could represent my turning a flush and checkraising him, getting a possible 3-bet out of him.
Of course this might be sort of results oriented too, after seeing his hand. I am a little surprised that he only called me down once I checkraised. I know he views me as a tight, straightforward player (because I'm a tight, straightforward player, lol), but he would've basically had to put me on exactly 55 with a UTG raise, or possibly 33, I guess.
Sorry for the long post. I tend to get a little wordy. Thanks in advance if anyone responds  
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Depending on your image, 3bet is a no brainer.
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08-05-2012, 01:55 PM
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#14
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 659
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
What if the turn and river card had been reversed? I agree with what most posters have said - 3 bet the flop. What if he had raised with an A high flush draw, and then a T of spades hits on the turn? You check the turn, hoping to check raise, and villain CHECKS! That would be a disaster.
It is heads up after the flop, you hit a magic flop, and your hand is well disguised. Since villain is drawing very thin, you want to get in as much money as possible. A slow play on the flop gives up a small bet in hopes of 2 big bets going in on the turn. But you risk getting no bets on the turn at all - in this hand you got lucky that it was one of his cards that hit on the turn.
If you 3! the flop, and lead the turn and river, you get a pretty good return on investment, don't risk having a street checked through, and also give villain the opportunity to raise you on one of the big streets where you can 3! a big street.
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08-05-2012, 03:35 PM
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#15
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 501
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Re: Maybe there is nothing to think about here....?
Yeah, now that I've had a chance to actually post my OP and get responses, I realized that in the hand, I needed to take a step back, because the flop mis-play is what caused further problems. At the time, I was just so thrilled about flopping a full house and wanting to slowplay it that my brain didn't really allow me to go much further, lol. Right after the hand, I started to go through it in my head at a slower pace.
I think part of the mishap was that the turn was what I thought to be his golden card. And that threw me off. I had all sorts of muddled thoughts. In my original post, I had mentioned that I wanted to checkraise the turn, but not knowing what turns I wanted to checkraise. I think in my head, I'd checkraise if a diamond came, and lead if a non-diamond came. Stupid thought process, instead of just 3-betting the flop, so that I could lead any turn.
Those people mentioning that the turn check-raise freezes action/screams out "I can beat your hand!" are completely right. My image doesn't help either. LOL
Apparently I play better poker when I j can just miss the flop and fold, instead of hitting perfectly.
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