Live 3/6 - top two on a four flush board

[Groovenstein]

Hero is HJ with KJ and has been running hotter than a thousand suns for the last half hour. V1 is UTG, passive, very loose but capable of making hero folds. V2 is UTG+2, somewhat loose, passive, and also capable of making hero folds.

V1 limps, V2 limps, folds to Hero who raises, folds to BB who calls, V1 and V2 call

Flop (4 players, 8 SB): J97

BB checks, V1 checks, V2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, V1 and V2 call

Turn (3 players, 5 BB): 3

Both check, Hero bets, both call

River (3 players, 8 BB): K

Both check, Hero ... ?

When I say hero folds, I mean either of these guys are capable of laying down a straight or even a tiny diamond here.

[BJJIII]

Check 100%

[Slide]

Ya just check, your talking about turning the btm of your value range/top of your bluff catching range into a bluff. This is basically never a good idea.

[crueleye]

Not sure what you are considering here. You said that neither will fold a diamond. What are you hoping they will call you with when you bet?

[rodeo]

i agree with checking this river.

just because they are both capable of folding better hands than top two pair doesn't mean that they both will fold.

if it were hu vs. one of these guys it may be more likely that they would fold better. the problem is that you'll be targeting a narrow range with your bluff, i.e. straights, sets. it seems unlikely to me that a villain would call all the way with a small flush draw, get there, and fold. that leaves 8T, QT, and sets which, would tend to want to protect their hand on the flop by raising. these guys are passive, but if they have a strong hand that isn't a flush between the two of them, one of them should be smart enough to know that they would want to protect against a naked diamond. so it seems to me their combined range on the river is better hands and worse hands that aren't calling.

[Groovenstein]

Originally Posted by crueleye

Not sure what you are considering here. You said that neither will fold a diamond. What are you hoping they will call you with when you bet?

I wouldn't be hoping they call. These guys call loose before and after the flop but I've seen them fold mubsy rivers. So I think they might fold a set, straight, or tiny diamond, and I was wondering if the pot size and board texture made it worth a shot. The consensus so far is no.

I need to learn more about this:

Originally Posted by Slide

Ya just check, your talking about turning the btm of your value range/top of your bluff catching range into a bluff. This is basically never a good idea.

Value range, bluff catching range, bluffing range. I know what these things are, but clearly I don't understand their interaction.

[leo doc]

Originally Posted by Groovenstein

I wouldn't be hoping they call. These guys call loose before and after the flop but I've seen them fold mubsy rivers. So I think they might fold a set, straight, or tiny diamond, and I was wondering if the pot size and board texture made it worth a shot. The consensus so far is no.

They might fold a set, but they don't have one to fold 'cause you'd have heard about it before the river.

They'll call with a straight 'cause they're expert at calling.

They're never folding a flush just in case you have a straight or a set... or 2 pair.

[nonsimplesimon]

knuckle time.

[timmer]

go ahead and follow through and b/f on this read dependent river unless you know they will call with a crappy diamond already. . besides next time you flop a flush you can rail it wire to wire.

[mikeca]

I would check this river.

No hand you beat would call a bet on that river, so there is no value in betting.

[Trex8063]

Check, imo.

If you'd indicated they were more the standard type of loose-passive villains (i.e. call down any piece), rather than the type to make hero folds, then I'd maybe say b/f.