My second river question from yesterday. I could use the help in these spots because I feel like I miss too much value otr. Sorry if the answer is obvious.

UTG+1 is lolbad (>90% of flops, calls down with as little as an overcard on drenched boards, etc.). BTN is unknown. Flops are going off with 5+ most of the time.

Hero is UTG+2 with 66

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, two folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, BTN calls, SB completes, BB checks

Flop (6 players, 6 SB): 432

SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, BTN calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls

Turn (3 players, 6 BB): Q

UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BTN calls, UTG+1 calls

River (3 players, 9 BB): 6

UTG+1 checks, Hero ... ?

UTG+1 will call with literally any piece, so I'm not worried about him. The unknown gives me pause, as does the completed OESD, but it is 3/6, and the flush was backdoor. B/f? What if it was the 9?

Ima B/F here ya.

Neither villain is described as tricky or aggressive, so you don't have to worry too much about getting bluffed out here.

There are plenty of hands these guys could look you up with that you beat.

p.s. Is 3/6 your only option? I think we may have talked about this before.....

Beautiful spot to b/f a river. It doesn't improve any hand that you can beat unless someone randomly has like Q6 or 64 or whatever and those are so few and far between that it is fine and at 3/6 they likely won't be raising anyway.

b/f is great as long as you aren't making a mistake and they are raising a hand you can beat. I almost bet/folded AQ on a AQxxK board, but realized this opponent could have KQ and sure enough I cry-called and saw KQ. Another time I bet/folded top set on like a K2379 board where the 9 completed the flush draw on the flop and sure enough he had 99.

I'm not worried about getting bluffed out. I'm a little worried about UTG+1 doing an lol k/r me off a winner. I've seen him make some pretty bad river moves. But he'd also call me with just about any piece, even a crap pair on this board. So I guess with him it's an easy bet, it's just a question of b/f or b/c. Maybe b/f the unknown.

I don't know if we talked about it, but yeah, 3/6 is my only LHE option. I usually play 6/12 LO8 but that only goes on the weekends.

nice hand, obviously bet the river; i heard sets are kinda good. folding if raised sounds great; river bluffraises are exceedingly rare and i would guess even more so at smaller stakes. it's more likely you just get called by a better hand.

IM paying off a river raise here. (player dependent)

I hate it when a 5 is out there but I also hate it way more when some chuckle head shows a slow played set of 3s.

I'd raise pre but calling isn't terrible.

I would bet the river but folding becomes more complicated. If its a loose passive old.man or if you KNOW villian is going to call with Max 2p then yes bf but you're up against a bad maniacal player and an unknown... and its.worth a mention that even though the str8 was open ended the fd was a bd . At 3/6 maybe unknowns default to lp. At my game at Canterbury in the 6/12 and above I wouldn't fold here vs the douche bags who frequent those games. Maybe your card room and opponents play differently. In general I don't like and very rarely fold sets. That's me though ...

Against an unknown, I would c/c the river as anything other than 5x or Ax is kinda unreasonable at this point. Ax is not going to pay off the river. Also some worse hands would probably bet (2 pair) as obviously neither of you have a straight. I'm not willing to b/f vs. an unknown.

Also, with a river c/c you get 2:1 on your river bluff-catching.

Disclaimer: I don't really play live 3/6.

oh Im definitely betting and Im also bluffing some of the time in this spot.

Bluffing with what? I can't think of any hands that would make sense for us to play this way and then "bluff" the river with. I mean, are you talking about something like 88 that we now should try to bluff with?

Def not folding a set here and i am def not betting my hand at this time against the remaining players. Which leaves me with check call. In my experience, they show up too many times with a five in this spot. Even though my mind says DO NOT FOLD SETS in limit poker...I would try hard to muster courage to fold. I really think that check call is best, but the call might change depending on what the last two players do.

If its a 9s? Im betting my hand. Not scared of the backdoor draw.

Post # 1 YAY.

Welcome.

The reason you bet then fold is to get value from the hands you beat. If they don't have a five, they're not betting, but will most likely call. If they have a five, they're raising.

If you bet and get called by a hand that beats you, you net the same loss as you would if you would check call.

If you check and they check behind, you don't win extra bets.

But what if I'm like 75 percent that someone has a five. Would it still be ok to bet fold? A four card straight board with 3 other players can never be good.

A hand that beats me should never call but always raise. So if I'm unsure as to if my opponents have a 5 but I can never lay it down I'd rather lose 6 then lose 12. Hypothetically someone might want to bet two pair here if they see weakness elsewhere.

If someone doesn't have a five then my bet will scare anyone without a five to fold. 2 pair will fold. No one without a five should call my bet anyways seeing how the hand played out.

Yes I'm bet folding my set here.

Yeah, so we can get 5x to fold to our obvious 75.