what Im saying is if you push a 1% edge into a 10% rake you will lose money in the long run. even if you win your fair share of the time.

Im sure you can understand this

If you play a hand than makes a dollar but it cost you $4 in fees you lose $3

IF you make a play that costs you $10 if you get it wrong and gains $1 when you get it right you better get it right 91 out of 100 times or .. LOSER

but thanks for expanding scenarios to create arguments.

perhaps you should take your miraLAX now

Oh yeah DougL . I'll find those references with in a few days. I think its in poker gaming and life. Im sure you've read it.

wow that didnt take long... heres one right here on page 9 of Poker gaming and Life by some guy you have never heard of David Sklansky

its in a chapter called "Being a Favorite"

Just Being a good player may not be enough to make you a favorite in the game there are 3 main possible reasons for this

2.The rake or time take out is enough to negate your edge.

sheesh how could this happen? the rake negating your edge?... David must have been drinking that day ?!!?

actually it will be the casino rake munching on your chips. nommie nom nom !!

$3 or $4 at a time while you chase those $.50 gross edges!!

lol@dick waving ITT from guys who have played and will likely be playing 4/8 their whole lives.

there is nothing to "Brag" about being a 1 bb/hr winner at 4/8 for 20 years.

$8/hr is nothing to sneeze at imo

As others have said, it's not an edge if you're losing money - whether to the drop or to other players.

Rule #1 of SSLHE is: don't play garbage hands preflop

Rule #2 of SSLHE is: don't chase if you're behind and don't have the odds to do so

That said, I'm playing a wide range on the button when it's multi-way limped to me. I think a big percentage of the edge we're talking about comes from playing more pots on loose-passive tables in position as position alone gives us an edge that doesn't show up in preflop odds calculations.

At any rate, heading there tomorrow. Where do you play timmer?

Timmer, the passage you referenced is actually an argument for chasing thin edges, not against. When your EV is negative in a game due to the rake, you have to push every edge you can in order to make up the difference. Of course, if you're a solid winner in a game, pushing a thin edge makes you MORE of a winner, but that doesn't seem to be the argument here...

It appears as if this argument centers around what the definition of an edge is. If you do something 100 times and 99 times it nets you a penny, and the other time you lose 98 cents, it's still an edge. It's a high variance edge, but it's an edge. It is likewise a high variance edge if you do something 100 times and 99 times you lose a penny, and the other time you earn $1.

As others have pointed out, the situations you're describing are not actual edges, but hypothetical leaks.