jeese posts a hand - Page 2 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

I'm saying QTcc shouldn't be in your cbet, x/f turn range (for most turns). It belongs in your double barrel range (for most turns). Alternately, it can also go in your PF folding range or PF calling range. Hurray for ranges.

Agree to disagree

Quote

08-29-2014 , 06:29 PM

#27

Nchabazam

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,938

Just jam money in the pot. Tilt equity when you river a club is worth any price.

Quote

08-31-2014 , 07:40 AM

#28

AlphaGun

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob148

Maybe a value range something like 77, 66, 55, AA-JJ? 33 combos. Dude's getting 8.5:2 on a turn raise call, so I wanna bluff ~ 30% of the time. Back of my hand says ~10 bluffs. AKdd, AKcc, AQdd, AQcc, AJdd, AJcc, ATdd, ATcc, A9dd, A9cc. I don't have any room in my bluffing bin for Qxs unless I'm trying to exploit a high raise fold %.

I'd just call the turn raise and hope to hit something.

Are you planning to bet the river with a lot of your missed draws if it goes 3-bet - call on the turn? If you are, then why is it better to 3-bet bluff with your A-high flush draws here which have the most showdown value? My understanding is that it is normally better to construct a bluffing range with the least showdown value but with the most outs if we are going to continue the bluff on the river. Is there an exception here?

Quote

08-31-2014 , 09:27 AM

#29

Bob148

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11,972

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaGun

I plan to give up with my stronger bluffs and I'll bet the river with the weaker bluffs. I could just be bad at poker, but I currently hold the opinion that it doesn't matter if they fold a better hand. On the river, it's just a question of fold equity adding up to make a bet more profitable than checking. I'm not sure about this though so you can feel free to ignore my posts.

On a board pairing river, I'll probably give up with AJdd+, and AJcc+.

Quote

08-31-2014 , 12:50 PM

#30

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nchabazam

Just jam money in the pot. Tilt equity when you river a club is worth any price.

This guy will not flap.

Quote

08-31-2014 , 06:12 PM

#31

bakku

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,925

i fold pf
you already know this but hj is peeling this flop 100% so be wary of how often you c/f turn
no one ever folds to that turn 3b anymore

Quote

08-31-2014 , 06:50 PM

#32

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakku

i fold pf
you already know this but hj is peeling this flop 100% so be wary of how often you c/f turn
no one ever folds to that turn 3b anymore

Yeah yeah yeah.

Quote

09-03-2014 , 11:35 AM

#33

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakku

i fold pf
you already know this but hj is peeling this flop 100% so be wary of how often you c/f turn
no one ever folds to that turn 3b anymore

Talked to a gto specialist. Live intuition tells me the 4 bet is weighted towards free showdown stuff (88/99 here). Game theory says 5 bet the turn. Discuss.

Quote

09-03-2014 , 11:59 AM

#34

Bob148

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11,972

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

Talked to a gto specialist. Live intuition tells me the 4 bet is weighted towards free showdown stuff (88/99 here). Game theory says 5 bet the turn. Discuss.

In order for 5 betting to be correct, it must be more profitable than calling and check raising the river when you hit.

I'm reminded of a passage from "The Theory of Poker" where he claims that it's never correct to just call when your semibluff gets raised, but I never agreed with that passage.

I call and hope to hit.

Quote

09-03-2014 , 02:04 PM

#35

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

Talked to a gto specialist. Live intuition tells me the 4 bet is weighted towards free showdown stuff (88/99 here). Game theory says 5 bet the turn. Discuss.

How is 4 betting the turn a free showdown?

Quote

09-03-2014 , 02:08 PM

#36

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob148

If it's a fsdr I never get to check raise river. Ever.

Quote

09-03-2014 , 02:09 PM

#37

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

How is 4 betting the turn a free showdown?

FSD4 obv. It's what self taught winning.players do here. Seriously. What hands is he four betting for value?

Quote

09-03-2014 , 03:04 PM

#38

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

FSD4 obv. It's what self taught winning.players do here. Seriously. What hands is he four betting for value?

KK+

Quote

09-04-2014 , 07:23 PM

#39

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_locke

KK+

Well he had the snowmen

Quote

09-04-2014 , 10:11 PM

#40

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

Well he had the snowmen

Well, could he have had KK+?

Quote

09-05-2014 , 01:15 AM

#41

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Well, could he have had KK+?

I just don't think so. I feel like most tough but self taught players wait til the river there

Quote

09-05-2014 , 01:16 AM

#42

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,573

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

Well he had the snowmen

Super8888 IMO.

Quote

09-08-2014 , 11:17 PM

#43

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,544

He's not folding a pair to a five bet

Quote

09-09-2014 , 03:22 PM

#44

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

He's not folding a pair to a five bet

Will he really call a 5 bet and a river bet with 88/99?

Quote

09-09-2014 , 04:19 PM

#45

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse8888

Will he really call a 5 bet and a river bet with 88/99?

I think that's a necessary consequence of 4 betting turn (and another reason not to 4 bet).

Quote

09-10-2014 , 10:46 AM

#46

jeese

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 129

Yeah I mean I didn't 5 bet. But I think it's worth considering.

Quote

09-10-2014 , 12:10 PM

#47

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

If your read is that he never has KK+, then yeah, you're putting him on exactly 88-99 and 5-betting looks genius.

But KK+ is 24 combos so even discounted it's going to present problems. And I assume he's going to 6-bet 77 at least.