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How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw?

09-26-2015 , 08:01 PM
I definitely play this hand badly. Need some suggestion.

How to play bottom touched two pair?

3/6 live
Six way action
I check big blind with 89off suit
Flop A89 with A9 of spade
I m first to act
I do not know what to do
I feel ppl are on straight draw/ flush draw and a pair of aces

I check
Check around to the button who bet
Hero just call (?????) table is pretty loose hero decide to peal one more card. If any draw hit hero will shut down
Call around.
River is a 2c
Hero check
Check around to button who bet
Hero raise
And everyone fold to the button and I got to heads up
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-26-2015 , 08:41 PM
Check raise the flop
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-26-2015 , 08:42 PM
I think this is a good spot to look at with equilab. Putting your opponents on ranges and understanding how often you'll win this pot is crucial imo.

I'd check the flop for starters. If there's a bet from anywhere that doesn't get raised, then I'm check raising the flop. In some spots, I'll check 3 bet the flop if given the opportunity, but if a tight player raises the flop, then I'm not going to 3 bet.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-27-2015 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond
Check raise the flop
Ditto. Betting out could be better, but as played, definitely check-raise flop.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-27-2015 , 06:02 PM
As played is an option and a line to keep in your tool bag.

C/r OTF would show lots of strength and trap in lots of money but it will also give good pot odds for people to call their draws on the turn. Given the fact that its 3-6 limit I really do think that argument is irrelevant but definitely a good argument at 8-16+.

By just calling the flop bet and then check raising the turn which is typical for 4-8 and below for a lines of two pair or flopped sets you push out lots of your opponents allowing for less sickouts.

Overall I recommend to immediately stop playing 3-6 limit because its an un beatable game. Save up a few K and start at 8-16 or at a bare minimum 6-12 if offered and really play ABC poker until you feel comfortable making moves and exploiting players weaknesses.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-28-2015 , 01:55 AM
Thank you all for posting.
Yeah I need to learn more
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-28-2015 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond
Check raise the flop
This.

We have tons of value. There are many draws out there, so our hand is not faceup. To not just go ahead and raise here, you need to really trust that the button will bet the turn, because we're check raising then. You can make protection arguments, but what hands will fold that we want to fold out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maganda's Big Fish
C/r OTF would show lots of strength and trap in lots of money but it will also give good pot odds for people to call their draws on the turn.
None of these people fast play their big hands, as they always wait for the turn. Thus, how is raising the flop showing strength? A set of 9's never does this.
Quote:
Overall I recommend to immediately stop playing 3-6 limit because its an un beatable game. Save up a few K and start at 8-16 or at a bare minimum 6-12 if offered and really play ABC poker until you feel comfortable making moves and exploiting players weaknesses.
What's the price of losing a little at 3/6 due to rake or making a little? Not very much. There is value to getting experience at the table, becoming comfortable, etc. Heck, you can run a bit good and win. I hear this "save a few K and then jump into Limit X" advice fairly often, and it seems terrible. People who I know who've played up from the bottom just ran well for 3 months and moved up. I don't know a lot of people who just bought into 10/20 games and won. Maybe it happens, but I've never really heard about it.

Quote:
I m first to act
I do not know what to do
I feel ppl are on straight draw/ flush draw and a pair of aces
OK, you are in a multiway limped pot. People have their preflop ranges, which are probably 40%-60% (or more) of all hands, minus the hands they raise. They don't have just straight draws and top pair, because they haven't bet or raised. You're listing hopes/fears, not what they have.
Quote:
I check
You are a decent favorite to have the best hand. Stop there. Pull out equilab. Put in ranges for villains. Once you post the flop equity from your guess, someone here will help tinker with your ranges. I'm certain you're a favorite, so the only question is "check because will bet" or "bet for value, now".
Quote:
Check around to the button who bet
Hero just call (?????) table is pretty loose hero decide to peal one more card. If any draw hit hero will shut down
Your plan with two pair is to check/call flop, and then check fold if any draw comes in on turn? You need to work on your aggression. When we're a favorite, we build pots to win big ones.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-28-2015 , 12:26 PM
I thought it may have been a typo in the subject but it's in the body as well:

Is "bottom touched two pair" a thing, and if so, what does it mean?

I understand what two pair are, but not "bottom touched".
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-28-2015 , 01:23 PM
His cards connect making lots of straight draws possible.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-28-2015 , 07:58 PM
89 doesn't have as much equity on this flop as you'd think. I'd prefer betting out on the flop.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-29-2015 , 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pid Koker
89 doesn't have as much equity on this flop as you'd think. I'd prefer betting out on the flop.
Me too. Though I'd be betting to three bet. There's a lot of gutshots/Ax/etc out there that we'd enjoy charging.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-29-2015 , 11:23 PM
K/r flop. After button bets we want to charge hands like QT, QJ and Ax the max to draw. By leading out OTF these hands can call one bet profitably but with less than 20% equity can't profitably call a flop k/r.

Sent from my LG-D415 using 2+2 Forums
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
09-30-2015 , 01:40 AM
thanks for all the posts,
I m going to do necessary adjustment to my game!
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
10-01-2015 , 04:43 PM
How do you guys feel about check raising ATo on the flop? I wouldn't, but it's the next best hand in my range after 98. I'd expect a big equity drop between 98 and ATo, but haven't done any analysis for this spot yet.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
10-01-2015 , 05:09 PM
Would love to see some stoved ranges.

Once you're in a 6 way pot, are you really concerned that much about "this is the top of my range" considerations? Five people limped to get here, suggesting that there are few/no hand reading geniuses waiting in the weeds. Don't we just go for "what's the biggest value"? Maybe you do a quick check for whether or not you're playing face-up, but if this is the 2nd best hand in your flop range, does it matter much?

Also, JTs with a BDFD (if you have that) or T7s with a BDFD have to be pretty big hands equity-wise... No, wait. Thinking that bottom two pair (the best hand, now) probably still crushes the ~9.5 out draws.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote
10-01-2015 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL
Would love to see some stoved ranges.

Once you're in a 6 way pot, are you really concerned that much about "this is the top of my range" considerations? Five people limped to get here, suggesting that there are few/no hand reading geniuses waiting in the weeds. Don't we just go for "what's the biggest value"? Maybe you do a quick check for whether or not you're playing face-up, but if this is the 2nd best hand in your flop range, does it matter much?

Also, JTs with a BDFD (if you have that) or T7s with a BDFD have to be pretty big hands equity-wise... No, wait. Thinking that bottom two pair (the best hand, now) probably still crushes the ~9.5 out draws.
Based purely on intuition, I'd guess you've got like 40-50% against 5 other randos on this board.

Also, didn't mention this before, but I wouldn't worry about protection. You're OOP so that makes "protecting" much harder, unless you can be sure you can check and get BTN to bet.
How to protect hand multiway with bottom touched two pairs against million draw? Quote

      
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