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Old 08-09-2012, 09:17 PM   #16
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No flop cbet for me. As played, call river.

For those that advocate a raise, what's the raise for? Value or bluffing? Do we expect anyone to fold a pair? Do we expwct anyone to call AQ-?
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:10 AM   #17
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

I'd rather raise the river than call it. I feel like one of the two flop callers will overcall with a small pair very often (55-TT), but will fold facing 2.

I'd give up on the flop though, but would give some consideration to betting the turn as played.
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:16 AM   #18
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
No flop cbet for me. As played, call river.

For those that advocate a raise, what's the raise for? Value or bluffing? Do we expect anyone to fold a pair? Do we expwct anyone to call AQ-?
It's investing an extra 1 BB into 10 to potentially fold out a better hand. How often are we good here against the CO, and how often will someone behind fold a pair?

I think we're good in the 20-30% range against the CO, and we get 2 folds behind us a huge amount of the time. So say 30% of the time we win if we call and it were HU, but an additional 33.3% of the time an overcaller calls and takes the pot from us. So we're investing 1 BB to clean up about 33.3% of a 3BB stake in the pot, which is break even.

So call and raise seem close with my numbers, which are very rough estimates, on a loose estimation of the pot size. Seems like a spot where you'd be pretty indifferent between the 2, unless my estimate about how often we're ahead of CO is way low or something.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:50 PM   #19
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

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Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
Bet the turn; fold the river as played.
Yeah I think this is it. If we bet the turn and they all call, I fold the river but if we get it HU then I might C/C some blanks (and obv keep betting if we improve.)
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:33 PM   #20
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

River call is ok...against most players it's a fold - against a player with "random aggression" it's cool in this big pot where no one seems to have anything.
I won't always c-bet the flop but don't think it's awful. Feel worse about betting the turn.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:42 PM   #21
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

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Originally Posted by Laminated Effect View Post
What about a raise here? Is that just lighting money on fire?
No. Raise > call. The pot is 9 bets, so investing one more bet to win it when you have a good chance of beating the bettor is a wise move. See SSHE.

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
For those that advocate a raise, what's the raise for? Value or bluffing?
Bluffing, although we often have a better hand than the bettor.

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Do we expect anyone to fold a pair?
Yes. Even though we're not representing a lot (maybe a backdoor flush, maybe scared turn play with AJ or an overpair) it would be a rare small stakes player to both read that we don't have anything and call two cold here with a pair below nines.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:05 PM   #22
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Re: A-high call in 4-way pot

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Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
No. Raise > call. The pot is 9 bets, so investing one more bet to win it when you have a good chance of beating the bettor is a wise move. See SSHE.



Bluffing, although we often have a better hand than the bettor.



Yes. Even though we're not representing a lot (maybe a backdoor flush, maybe scared turn play with AJ or an overpair) it would be a rare small stakes player to both read that we don't have anything and call two cold here with a pair below nines.
Yeah this, I wouldn't expect bettor to fold anything but air, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to call with whatever they have.
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