Both hands really only interesting on turn+ river but all streets welcome.

Hand 1. Crazy game, utg straddles, bunch of calls somewhere and I 3 bet AKs from sb, bb calls, some person 4 bets (idk who but doesn't matter) i 5 bet and we see flop 6 ways.

I lead AQ3 flop and only 3 people calls.
Turn J, I check BB bets and pf capper calls.
River 3, I check, BB bets, hit calls and i call


Hand 2: I sit down in short handed game late at night and get impression villain is stuck huge. I win a rack vs him first 2 hands and he folds both rivers. He opens utg 5 handed, I 3 bet KK button, he 4 bets and I call.

Flop is 10-8-4 rainbow and he check-raises/4 bets. Turn Q he bets and I call. River J, he checks and I check back

Hand 1: I like it. All the weaker aces that were calling you down will snap bet now, so you win the same. And you avoid having to b/c turn.

Hand 2: yup. You chop at best. I'd even consider xb flop with like QQ (KK is too much to not bet)

I prefer to keep betting in hand 1. I think we miss too much value against Ax, Qx, 3x, JT and wheel draws. People might have even peeled flop with 77 or whatever to try to spike a 2 outer since the pot was so huge (and maybe correctly so). I also disagree that all villains in that game will auto bet an ace when checked to after that much action.

Hand 2: I wrote a bunch of crap but think I basically said I agree with how you played it.

hand 1. nh

hand 2. this one is more interesting to me. if he can have all AT as well as 99 in his range, then we should probably bet for value. if he can't have ATo and only has ATs in his range, then we should check.

his river check is pretty odd. i know you can't have the nuts, but does he? villain checking the river with a set seems unlikely. but because we don't have much of a read on this guy, i'm a bit confused as to what he's capable of showing up with here. in that case, i'd say, "pots big enough." and check. so nh.

the river check in hand 2 can just the ol "I have a set and the board got scary so now I can c/r and hope he cant hand read!" line

1. Not sure how you're viewed but I have a hard time seeing what worse hands are going to bet. Do people think you'd call down KK? Do they think you'd sexy a set? 5-bet TT OOP preflop?

Assuming nobody thinks you're going to fold AK, you're unlikely to get bluff raised and you can bet/call, check/fold UI comfortably.

2. I mean this is like QQ/JJ all the time, right? Or is he really the kind to donk check/raise/4-betting AK on the flop? Check back and hope to chop IMO.

Or given up with AA or KK as well fearing a smaller pair like QQ (already there) or JJ (just got there) beats him or a stubborn AK just caught up. AA might still be able to bet, but KK is probably a chop at best.

I think his ck and your ck are correct given the action.

I'm calling the turn with KK, and on the river, they assume I don't have AK, chop with the rest and have a free-roll bet

Had I taken this line, it likely would have resulted in probably the biggest mistake I've ever made in a limit holdem hand (after he value bets Jq on river)

So you think someone is going to raise you on the turn with a worse ace?

he could raise AK, JQ, spaz with A-10 or whatever. But folding the river in a 20 big bet+ pot with AK on the A high board is not an option. The river action went bet-call-call and I was the only player with an Ace in my hand, so again I'm committed to showing down

So if you've categorically ruled out folding and you think people will spaz raise you with AT KQ KJ QT JT or whatever, then you've basically answered your own question.

The only question that remains is whether they spaz raise so much you should bet to INDUCE a spaz raise, then call down.

I think it takes someone pretty special to watch you 5-bet pre OOP (even a regular dude 5-betting is strong and you probably 5-bet less than most), then either think a weak ace is worth a raise on an AQJ board or think they can fold you on an AQJ board.

As it turns out it worked in your favor, BB took a stab at the pot and the other player called, giving you relative position and probably an extra overcall or two. But had BB checked and the other player bet turn, you might have cost yourself an overcall or two.

I don't think they will spazz raise me, I think there are lots of hands in their range that pulled ahead of me on the turn, and if i am ahead they should have decent equity vs me hand. AJ. JQ, and K-10 all took the lead on the turn.
But people do bad stuff enough, where folding the river is out of the question. That doesn't mean i think he raises A9s on turn here, but it does mean that on the river I'm going to call and hope to see A9s 4% of the time.

People try to do what they can to win big pots. Sometimes irrationally so (I know I've been guilty).

I think laying down AK on the turn is silly, and folding it on that river is absurd

hi jon,

hand 1:
Would you expect BB to 4! AQ/AJ pre? What kind of range do you put preflop 4!er on after he backraises? If we're going to discount some of these hands, can only really worry about KT and QJ, I would think betting is best.

cmon cally, folding river for 1 bet would be awful. all sorts of things happen with non-trivial frequency in large pots.

hand 2:
looks fine but thoughts on 3! flop vs waiting for turn?

both hands expertly played by an expert. go figure.

Silver: I think villain donk checking twice in this hand alone shows that tending to fastplay on all streets is a reasonable adjustment to make against him.

Hi Lond, villain only donk xked on the river, and it was a pretty scary runout from his perspective. I agree that if he donk checks a lot we should be more inclined to 3! right away.


For hand 1, I'm estimating hero at something like 54% equity vs villains on turn before betting. Huge pot, so I would say protect.

yes, i'm that guy.

You improved on the river.

Not when you get raised on the AQJx board after you 5-bet preflop OOP and cbet twice into 6-way and 4-way pots, and then don't improve on the river.

Silver: he donk checked flop also if I'm reading action correctly

what are we protecting against?

I think it's bad because all sorts of weird things happen in big pots. call it an exploitative call if you want.

but i don't think it's even that, gto depends on our preflop range, and my guess is that it will have us calling this down 100% and folding ATs some percent of the time.

pretty much everything, including Q7s and 88 in a pot this size.......


And you guys are right about hand 2 donk-xk of course, sorry about that.

i think you have hands backwards. but the AK hand bb would likely not cap AQ. as for every other persons hands they are borderline random with suited broadways more likely than slow played QQ+ (and why i hate turn as tthats great card for broadway type hands)

the other hand may be example of bad hand to post, but I see most people made assumptions about his range that I did (only 2 hands of history) and no reason to believe he would lose his mind