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09-18-2016 , 02:30 AM
Decided recently to get back into playing live B&M small stakes limit holdem (2-4, 3-6,4-8) after being away for years and played about five sessions and down about $60 coming into tonight's session where I found myself playing a pretty tight passive style (typical LL game) which brought me to thinking about low versus middle versus high limit holdem. My thinking is as follows: when running bad that it's OK to play a tight passive style in a low limit game as a good tight passive player will still get the money along with good TAGs and LAGs in THAT game. In the middle limits the TP players get their lunch eaten by the good TAGs and LAGs and in the high limits the TP players AND the TAGS get their lunch eaten by the good LAGs. So, a LL player has the luxury of crawling into his shell to ride out a storm of bad cards when running bad when he couldn't get away with that in the higher limits. Any thoughts/opinions on this theory? If true, then it's a nice luxury to have as a LL player grinder who would naturally open up and play more aggressively and looser when running better.
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09-18-2016 , 10:42 AM
styles don't matter just do what you think is correct every hand
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09-18-2016 , 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fall equinox
So, a LL player has the luxury of crawling into his shell to ride out a storm of bad cards when running bad
This is not a good way to think. "Runs" or streaks are only recognizable in retrospect. There is no signal flare that will be shot in the air announcing that a "bad run" is about to begin, or when it is ending.

So you're holding KK and it folds to you in middle position and you're just going to limp in because you're having a "bad run" so there's probably just going to be an ace on the flop and of course someone's going to have an ace? How would know when making that decision whether your last had was the end of the "bad run" and a "good run" was about to begin on this hand? You wouldn't and couldn't. That's why this is the answer:

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke
just do what you think is correct every hand
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09-18-2016 , 03:25 PM
"So you're holding KK and it folds to you in middle position and you're just going to limp in because you're having a "bad run" so there's probably just going to be an ace on the flop and of course someone's going to have an ace? How would know when making that decision whether your last had was the end of the "bad run" and a "good run" was about to begin on this hand? You wouldn't and couldn't. That's why this is the answer:"

Haha - raising with KK in that position is a no brainer but appreciate the response. Here is an example of what I mean by TP vs. TA play preflop. It's nine handed and you have KTs in middle position after two limpers (one of them limped UTG). Raising with ATs would be almost automatic but a hand like KTs is borderline. If I'm running well I would raise in that spot with a hand like KTs but limp if running bad and therefore have a deficit of respect/fear from my opponents. Raising with KTs in that spot seems a little borderline and it is these kinds of borderline hands/situations that I'm referring to when I speak of this idea.
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09-18-2016 , 04:36 PM
I would also be raising in that same spot with 99, KJs, AJo, KQo, and A9s but would limp with a hand like QJs, Qts and JTs and A8s. I would raise all day long with KJs in that spot. 88 would be a borderline pocket pair hand that I might also consider limping with if running bad.
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09-18-2016 , 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fall equinox
If I'm running well I would raise in that spot with a hand like KTs but limp if running bad and therefore have a deficit of respect/fear from my opponents.
It sounds like you're actually talking about making some kind of meta-game adjustment based on your table image from taking a bunch of bad beats. The answer is still the same. You're playing $2/$4 through $4/$8. Assume that the other players are not paying attention to anything except their two cards until proven otherwise. They aren't going to be calling you lighter because they've noticed you've been running bad and think they have a better chance of beating you. At those limits they are calling you light because they simply don't like to fold. Period. You're overthinking it.
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09-18-2016 , 06:40 PM
That's a valid point you make. It's not $15-30 and most of the players are prolly playing their own cards regardless of how I'm running. The game shouldn't be that tough at that level for such adjustments to be necessary to consider. The adjustments I'm suggesting are pretty microscopic anyway as to be essentially irrelevant. Thanks for the response.
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09-18-2016 , 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fall equinox
That's a valid point you make. It's not $15-30 and most of the players are prolly playing their own cards regardless of how I'm running. The game shouldn't be that tough at that level for such adjustments to be necessary to consider. The adjustments I'm suggesting are pretty microscopic anyway as to be essentially irrelevant. Thanks for the response.
You're welcome and good luck. Just keep studying and trying to improve. Try to make a valid assessment of whether you're just running bad, or playing poorly. If the former, don't start making radical changes. You can't escape variance. And when you take a bad beat try to say to yourself "I benefit from this guy chasing with few outs in the long run, but I have to accept that sometimes he gets there. If he never ever gets there he wouldn't chase."

Also, hopefully you can move up in stakes a bit eventually. Around here the rake in the $2/$4 and $4/$8 game is nearly impossible to beat.
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09-18-2016 , 08:42 PM
Yeah, I play LL games here in Vegas with a 10% rake and sometimes jackpot drop, so I'm looking to raise pre-flop with a lot of hands for bigger pots to overcome the rake and the drop. My goal is to be in the black and maybe win 1/2 BB/hr. I play for the fun and the challenge of it. The $$ is just how I keep score. Limit holdem is dead and dying everywhere, but it's the game I like to play and I enjoy the challenge of trying to beat it (back in the days of Chris Moneymaker I made $10 plus per hour playing on auto pilot in live games and online). Those days are long gone though, but that's okay as I have re-discovered an old love and hobby. Phil Ivey doesn't play for the $$ but because he enjoys it. It's kinda nice and refreshing to be able to have that attitude and I am finding it very enjoyable now which years ago I made the mistake of letting a hobby that I loved turn into a job. I'm still a competitive person though!
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09-18-2016 , 08:50 PM
Tipping even $1 for small un-raised pots in a LL game can make a big difference b/t being break even and being in the black by a little, so that would be a big reason to raise liberally pre flop.
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09-21-2016 , 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fall equinox
Tipping even $1 for small un-raised pots in a LL game can make a big difference b/t being break even and being in the black by a little, so that would be a big reason to raise liberally pre flop.
Tipping discussion!

I stopped tipping in "small" pots (ones that were 3 or less handed that were won on the turn or earlier) a while ago. It seems fine.

But I do have dealers I never tip and dealers I always tip.
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09-21-2016 , 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jesse8888
Tipping discussion!

I stopped tipping in "small" pots (ones that were 3 or less handed that were won on the turn or earlier) a while ago. It seems fine.

But I do have dealers I never tip and dealers I always tip.

Yeah, I am no longer tipping unless there is a flop. But your policy seems reasonable too. Thanks.
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09-21-2016 , 07:54 PM
my polices are, if nothing else, usually reasonable.
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