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11-12-2016 , 10:06 PM
Haven't played since last march I think...

2/4 home game. I've been playing about 2 rounds. Players seem to be laggy pre flop and flop, a bit more passive turn and river, some times going all the way with A high.

9 players.
Fold. Villain Raise, Hero 3-bet with 88, folds to villain who 4bets, hero calls.
Flop 89K
Villain bet, hero call
Turn 6
Villain bet, hero raise, re-raise, hero caps.
River 3
Villain checks
Hero bets

Looking at it now I already see a couple of things I would do differently.
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11-12-2016 , 10:22 PM
It would be helpful for us to construct ranges if you let us know what position the initial raiser and yourself were in.
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11-13-2016 , 02:46 AM
I would have raised the flop. If the villian 3 bets, I'd 4 bet.

If the villian checks on the turn, I'd bet and just call if he raises.

Your flat call flop, raise turn line should look like a set, flush or straight and he 3 bets anyway. As you played it, I would not 4 bet the turn.

Now this is a home game, so maybe they just overplay.
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11-14-2016 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond
It would be helpful for us to construct ranges if you let us know what position the initial raiser and yourself were in.
This, and also the nature of the game.

Like at my home games I have 62o some nonzero percentage of the time because someone needs to go home and nobody has change so we just play like idiots until someone has all the chips. I'm guessing that's not the case here but how serious are people about winning money?
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11-14-2016 , 09:54 PM
I think that you have a much better chance of getting in many bets in good on the flop than on the turn on this board texture. Of course you probably know this guy better than we do but people are typically more likely to overplay and spew on the flop than on the turn.

However if he's the type to spew or overplay on the turn then I like the flop call.

If he will spew on the flop and the turn then by all means put in as much action as possible on all streets.

If he raises the river I'd call.
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11-21-2016 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyLond
It would be helpful for us to construct ranges if you let us know what position the initial raiser and yourself were in.
Ranges AA-JJ, AK-AQ. Maybe TT.
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11-21-2016 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeca
I would have raised the flop. If the villian 3 bets, I'd 4 bet.

If the villian checks on the turn, I'd bet and just call if he raises.

Your flat call flop, raise turn line should look like a set, flush or straight and he 3 bets anyway. As you played it, I would not 4 bet the turn.

Now this is a home game, so maybe they just overplay.
What hand are you talking about?
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11-21-2016 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
This, and also the nature of the game.

Like at my home games I have 62o some nonzero percentage of the time because someone needs to go home and nobody has change so we just play like idiots until someone has all the chips. I'm guessing that's not the case here but how serious are people about winning money?
Players are not super bad, aggressive pre-flop, not as aggressive post flop but could go all the way with marginal hands. Don't think anyone would 4-bet with rags.

From assigned ranges only KK and AQ beat me. Nobody will 4 bet with rags in this group.

I thought it was pretty clear in hand description, Villan UTG+1, Hero UTG+2
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11-22-2016 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batruha
What hand are you talking about?
The hero's hand. The hero flopped a set, I'd raise the flop.

As played, what does Villain think the hero's turn raise means? Set? Flush? Straight (T7 or 75)? Whatever he thinks, he 3 bets anyway. I would normally think this means he has the flush, but who knows in this home name.
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11-22-2016 , 02:41 PM
I would just call down the turn 3 bet. This is a small stakes game, I don't expect someone to be 3 betting turn with AK or AA here very often. At least not often enough to be 4 betting 88.
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11-22-2016 , 03:08 PM
my guess is the best play is to raise the flop, and dont 4 bet the turn.
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12-01-2016 , 03:36 PM
The way the action played out, the villain is supposed to have a higher set or a non-nut flush.

If this were PLO and you flopped bottom set, you'd wait for the turn and stack off safe cards. This would be the "should I fold here or try to hit bottom full". In limit you waited for an unsafe turn and shoveled in the monies. Why?

+1 to the just give action on the flop. Lots of different hands can have draws to pay you or even jam it up with you. They can put you on a draw, so this isn't giving action on a K72r board. Even if a bad card comes, you'll have 10 outs to catch up.

As played, villain caps PF and b/3 the turn. What do you put him on? Kx7 for top pair + draws?
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12-01-2016 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1
my guess is the best play is to raise the flop, and dont 4 bet the turn.
Agreed. Bottom set is like the nut worst hand to slowplay because he has so many more hands that can put in way too much $ when behind combo-wise. Compare this to flopping top set and having the deck crushed a bit.

As played, 4 betting turn is a major, major overplay. Even versus a maniac, there's a lot of stuff in his 3 bet range you're beat by, and probably not a ton of stuff for value you're beating.
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12-01-2016 , 07:00 PM
You have one general read about the game you're playing in - that the players play more aggressive on the small bet streets than on the big bet streets - and then you play this hand exactly the opposite of how you should in order to exploit that information. You slow play the flop with a monster and then give max action on the turn when your hand has whittled down to a bluff/overplay catcher.

Assuming an average small stakes player - which is all I can assume with no other information given - his turn three-betting range is basically all flushes and bigger sets. There's some chance he could have AK with the NFD, but that would be atypical and even the sets would be concerned about you turning a flush. Capping is clearly a spew against that range.

Betting the river certainly loses you money long term. It's weird that he would check a flush there - especially since his PFR capping range would consist of mostly nut flushes - but your turn play screams flush so maybe he's trying to check-raise.

As played on the flop, raising the turn is a must, but you have to slow down against a typical opponent after they three bet.

Edit: If you wind up winning a showdown here, it doesn't change the fact that you made the wrong decision on every street postflop - it just means you have a better idea of how this particular opponent plays now.
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12-01-2016 , 07:40 PM
"Sometimes when you win, you actually lose."
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