Hero is in HJ with 78

EP (fish) limps, MP limps, MP+1 limps, Hero fires 2, BB & rest call. (10sb)

Flop: 964

Check, bet, call, hero raises, BB folds and all call. (18sb)

Turn: 2

Fish bets, calls, hero raises....all call. (Is this to much?) (15BB)

River is not relevant.

8-16 btw

river is absolutely relevant. if you're never bluffing the river raising the turn is silly

The turn bet was for the bluff in the river if I missed but the only bet fired was for value. Didn't want to give away the hand. I guess I'm just trying to get a concensus on what better players do in this spot. How often if any are you 2 betting a hand similar to this % wise given the diamond and OESD outs?

Also if you were the Villian in this spot and had good reads would you ever 2 barrel a bluff on the river if it were a non diamond and non 5 or 10?

how many outs do you have on the turn, what is your equity, and what price are you getting?

I was thinking about this hand, considering posting some response that includes listing your outs and equity, but then I saw this answer and realized it is a better answer than I was going to give. Mag, you should do the calculations and tell us, and we'll let you know if we agree.

I'm pretty boring, but I would limp pre, call flop, call turn, etc

Hey Jon Locke, serious question that might come across the wrong way, but here goes:

Is it possible that you've been beaten into submisson by aggressive preflop 3 bettors that have trained you to call here preflop? Or is it more like we have eight high?

Im with jonhlock camp.

Has for the hand, raising the flop is bad imo., you do not want to lose costumer (bb) .
Pot so big on turn, it cost nothing to raise so its fine on the premise like jesse said, bluffing the river .

I think this is 8/16 live. Bluffing 3 ways gets you one of three error messages, in increasing order of severity: "divide by zero", "stack overflow", or "I thought you had a bigger set"

Just limp PF

Flop I raise cap

Turn just call.

I'd raise the flop, but otherwise agree.

And more generally, if I DID play the hand the way OP pre-flop and on the flop, I would DEFINITELY not raise the turn. These guys have now called all sorts of bets, which tends to indicate that they are not going to fold without a showdown.

Extremely aggressive pot-building plays both narrow your opponents' ranges to better hands and make the pot more attractive to hero callers. As a result, if you do this sort of thing and lots of people stay in, prepare to have no fold equity and take free cards where appropriate.

I'm fine with the hand but generally limp pre. Come on guys turn raise is for funsies with our 15 outer...can't be that bad 3 way

I raise all hands here preflop and I think limping is wrong given my overall game

If you pop it pre, this is a great flop to raise the flop.

The turn I think the raise is close with 3 other people. Basically neutral.

Wholeheartedly disagree betting river is pointless unless you complete. No way everyone folds. I wouldn't raise a river diamond if someone bet first.

I think this is a flop raise regardless of PF action.

OESD to the nuts + backdoor flush draw + position


Easy flop raise/free card play

I'm not much of a free carder. Could be a hole in my game. Once we turn the FD, we're 4 ways with 15 outs and don't we jam for value?
The plan on the river is to hit a black 5 and make all of the bets against A3 and some silly person with 2 pair. The biggest difficulty is to say something happy/dumb when they ask you how you could have put in all those raises with 8 high. "Had a feeling." or "My wife's birthday is August 7th".

On that turn card vs 4 people I don't mind betting.

I'm just used to low limit bingo where you have to hit to win.

Let's hope we hit and win a lot more.

There are three big reasons I prefer not raising the turn:

1. The turn bet almost necessitates a river bet on a whiff. If you fire on the turn, you put yourself in a position where you are getting a jillion to one on the river on your bluff, which means that you must bluff even if there is an only tiny amount of fold equity, whcih means you have to factor the cost of that bluff into the cost of your turn raise.

2. We probably don't have 15 clean outs on the turn. Diamond draws aren't going to show up very often (but might every once in awhile), but sets, other 87's, and blockers to our straight draw are. How much you discount your outs is up to you, but the answer shouldn't be zero.

3. Our draw is actually quite concealed. We aren't taking an obvious free card-- we would be calling a bet on the turn so that looks like we decided our hand has seen enough action and should not raise anymore. Which means we are often going to get to raise the river and get called if we hit a flush or a straight(and may even get to raise-cap the river with the nut straight), which means we are often going to get more bets in on the river if we hit anyway. Meanwhile, if we continue our aggression on the turn, hands like 2 pair and even bottom set might decide they have seen enough action and call down, and one pair-type hands might even fold the turn, thereby depriving us of the ability to get our fair share of equity with our turn raise.

Versus three opponents, we don't have to bluff the river. We're never good, but the parlay of all of them folding is just too big.

Guys, this is live 8-16. Adjust as needed.