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Best river play here?

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06-22-2015 , 01:37 PM

Go Get It

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12,506

I don't play tooo much limit holdem but enough I should prolly post more hands here. This one had me thinking today would like thoughts on it. I have no idea what the best way to show a hand from bovada is so just took screen shots of it.

Hero does what on river here?

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06-22-2015 , 01:42 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Bet.

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06-22-2015 , 03:37 PM

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

Check.

What does Villain show up with here after his line that he calls you with that you beat?

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06-22-2015 , 04:40 PM

Go Get It

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12,506

Well so far this thread sums up the dilemma quite nicely.

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06-22-2015 , 04:54 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgcounty

Check.

What does Villain show up with here after his line that he calls you with that you beat?

This is OL 2/4, so villain is probably a chronic expert slowplayer. Means he almost certainly doesn't have a 6. Even if he does, he's likely not sophisticated enough to check it w/ intent to raise. Even if he is, he likely isn't sophisticated enough to add bluffs to his range.

So really we lose to like some dumb flop check raise with like AT that's now too MUBSy to bet. Absent a read, I'd bet and fold to a raise all day if I'm hero.

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06-22-2015 , 05:41 PM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Moar action on the flop or turn.

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06-22-2015 , 06:42 PM

Chasqui

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Moar action on the flop or turn.

+1

Did you make-smoove on the flop to raise the turn? I prefer action on the flop here since we can get the flush draw to play for 4 bets, but they may check the turn.

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06-22-2015 , 06:56 PM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasqui

+1

Did you make-smoove on the flop to raise the turn? I prefer action on the flop here since we can get the flush draw to play for 4 bets, but they may check the turn.

Ya. I mean the only reason we shouldn't raise the turn A isn't because we should fear it, but because we might blow villain off his worst showdownables. And I'm not worried about an OL 2 player who cold calls 3 bets approaching any situation with coherent logic.

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06-22-2015 , 09:19 PM

Go Get It

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12,506

Flop call was to jam turn. This is bovada so I have no real reads when the hand was played, but thought some of his range is Axss.

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06-22-2015 , 10:01 PM

#10

Chasqui

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

I agree that raising this turn is terrible for that reason. I just wanted to confirm OP's reason for stopping on the flop.

Last edited by Chasqui; 06-22-2015 at 10:08 PM.

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06-22-2015 , 10:07 PM

#11

Chasqui

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go Get It

Flop call was to jam turn. This is bovada so I have no real reads when the hand was played, but thought some of his range is Axss.

Also suited boadways and small/med PP. I'd use that range to answer your original river question. If close, you can add the oddball straight draw to his range, and a 6 some % of the time (he's an unknown limper after all)

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06-23-2015 , 01:56 AM

#12

BigBadBabar

California Elephant

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 21,553

i would valuebet, and nh

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06-23-2015 , 07:43 AM

#13

thunderMe

banned

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 9

From my part it is a value bet, rare times he will have Ax, but most of the time you will vtown a weaker hand

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06-23-2015 , 10:29 AM

#14

Go Get It

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12,506

What do people think villains range is here if we are value betting this river?

I think a value bet here assumes a very small range.

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06-23-2015 , 11:01 AM

#15

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

He has PP > 6; less than KK

When he checks, KK is the nuts.

Bet

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06-23-2015 , 11:12 AM

#16

CrazyLond

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,930

I don't think KK is the nuts as he could be mubsy with an ace or being tricky with a flush. There are some extremely bad players who might even check a 6 because the flush came in, although these are rare are more likely to exist in a live game.

I guess my point is bad players can be hard to read because they have bad logic. All that said though, I still think we can still value bet this river.

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06-23-2015 , 11:16 AM

#17

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

That's the point, we don't know what he's doing, but I assume if he had an Aces or a flush or trips he would bet.

When he checks, he's either being tricky, or scared of the ace (which means he can't beat KK)

More often than not, its the second one.

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06-25-2015 , 03:06 AM

#18

Maganda's Big Fish

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

+1

At the same time IMO it's possible at this limit and after the villains line he is waiting for the c/r you; so I would b/f in this spot.

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06-25-2015 , 12:58 PM

#19

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

And if he is being tricky, we can safely fold to a raise. EZ game. I don't know why people hate folding for one bet so often.

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06-28-2015 , 02:44 AM

#20

Jules22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,156

I bet the river here, nice hand imo. Small blind could win the main pot here his range might include a six or ace. Ace on the turn is ugly for your hand

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06-28-2015 , 09:14 AM

#21

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules22

I bet the river here, nice hand imo. Small blind could win the main pot here his range might include a six or ace. Ace on the turn is ugly for your hand

How is the ace ugly for our hand. It's a complete blank.

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06-30-2015 , 05:53 AM

#22

Maganda's Big Fish

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 308

Bet more $ on every street.

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06-30-2015 , 04:47 PM

#23

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

How is the ace ugly for our hand. It's a complete blank.

I wouldn't say complete blank, mostly because I've seen so many players (both live and online) go completely bonkers with like AJ because they don't know the difference between a bluff catcher and a bluff, and just decide that they'll spew their way to victory.

That being said, I said b/f before and I still think it's a slam dunk play.

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06-30-2015 , 05:01 PM

#24

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,047

No, it's a complete blank to us. We are calling down 100% of turn River (or raising)

The A on the turn doesn't make it more likely we are losing, it just makes it more likely he will fold the turn if we raise.

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07-04-2015 , 12:01 AM

#25

Maganda's Big Fish

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 308

i would b/f

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