8/16 9handed...

AK CO

A maniacal middle aged Asian raises in the LJ. A loose passive younger Asian 3! in the HJ - I 4b and an unkown bb calls ... they call.

4w flop (16sb) ... AK3 ... bb checks, the maniac bets and the lp calls ... I call planning to raise the turn. The bb folds.

ok?

Note: If I were oop to these players AND/OR if there was a FD here I would just fast play otf. Given that I had position and I had both a manaic lag-tard and a lp to my immediate right I feel that these situations are more profitable to wait for the turn to do the raising even though it's "mw" ... I also thought that if I raised the "field" here otf it would be blatantly obvious that I had (at least AQ) what I had and these guys (especially the maniacs) tend to lol bet to see where they're at. I think it's possible he would cbet the turn (as he so often does) and if the passive calls with some cheese I can tarp him for an extra bet. I just want to see if you guys are in agreement here. thanks

I generally save waiting for the turn to raise when I'm heads up. With two other people in, you might as well just get value right now, especially since the more "reasonable" of the two has already thrown in some chips. Also, you can't get a maniac to 3 bet if you just call.

I think I still fastplay. He donked out and there's already a caller. I assume donking means he hit some part of his hand and is not folding. Maybe you can even get him to 3B here. No telling on the turn whether you get any bets from LP, but on the flop I feel like he calls basically always.

If you raise on the flop I think you're guaranteed to get 2 sb, either one from maniac and one from lp, or two from maniac when he raises. Maybe you get more because bb calls or maniac raises and lp stays in. There's your extra bet from maniac on the turn.

If you raise on the turn, I feel like there are plenty of 8/16 players who "know" turn raises mean 2p+, especially some of the thinking maniacally aggro guys. Nobody expects the fastplay flop raise.

If the fault of maniacally aggressive guy is being maniacally aggressive, don't you want to give him more betting rounds in which to be maniacally aggressive? Depends I guess on how well he reads opponents when he is played back against.

the problem is that it's not 3way when you made your decision to wait for the turn. the bb is still in there making it 4way. also, if you're in a pot with a lagtard why not just jam away as he is likely to accommodate you by re-raising?

this is a fairly dry board as far as draws are concerned, and we're likely to have our villains drawing fairly thin. we have that going for us. still i just prefer to jam here. good things can happen.

Your raise would be putting the 20th bet in, with a gutshot being our only concern. They aren't going crazy on this flop anyway (unless we are drawing slim). I like the wait in this case.

i like ur play and reasoning

Why not raise not, let the maniac 3-bet, flat his 3-bet, and then raise the turn?

They can't go nuts if you don't let them.

FYP?

how sure are you that one of these guys is going to bet the turn? would the maniac bet QQ, JJ, TT on the turn after two callers?

i think you need to think more about how the villains would respond with ranges of hands after you take certain flop/turn actions.

hint: the answer is not "bet and call until I raise and then call down" with every hand. your play only makes the maximum under this condition.