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Small Stakes Limit Discussions about small stakes Texas Hold'em (from 2/4 to around 15/30)

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:36 AM   #1
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8/16 river bruff

Hero has QJ in the BB.

We're 6-handed at the moment.
Villain #1 (MP) has been playing loose passive. Her raising range is probably wider than AA-KK, but it's not like suited connectors or some junk.
Villain #2 (BTN) didn't realize MP raised and tried to pull his 1 bet back. But since SB had already called the 2, he was forced to put in 2 bets. I've seen him bet marginal hands when checked to.
Villain #3 (SB) is a typical nondescript 8/16 player. Shows aggression when he has a hand, calls if he thinks he has a chance to win, etc.

Anyway, preflop: MP opens, BTN and SB coldcall, I call.

Flop (7.5sb, 4ppl): T96
checked to pfr who bets, 2 calls, I c/r, they all call.

Turn (7.75bb, 4 ppl): 5
checked around.

River T
sb checks, I bet.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #2
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

You never have a T when you bet this river after having checked the turn.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:08 PM   #3
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

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Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
You never have a T when you bet this river after having checked the turn.
Yes, you and anyone here should know that. We also know no one else has a T.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:09 PM   #4
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

Ya, we shouldn't make the argument villain(s) have the ability to hand read and correctly put us on a busted draw. That said, we should assume villain's are bad and will call us down very lightly here anyways. I just check and give up at this point.

I would have also bet the turn. Then we can bluff this river if its 2-3 handed.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #5
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Bluffs in limit (almost) always cost more than one bet.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:07 PM   #6
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Turn check is a mistake with 14 outs.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
You never have a T when you bet this river after having checked the turn.
+1 so if any one of the three people have a pair, they're calling.

On the bright side, I think people may fold KQ and KJ here.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:43 PM   #8
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

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Originally Posted by albacorela View Post
Turn check is a mistake with 14 outs.
Boom. We haz a winnar.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:40 PM   #9
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

I think the turn check is pretty good - your bet is only for value if everyone calls, you don't have a ton of fold equity, and you don't have any fake outs on the river. I'd just c/c the turn and donk the river if you improve (b/3b straights, b/f pairs).

As played . . . meh, I'd fold in a vacuum but with the right game flow I think it's an OK spot to bluff.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:04 PM   #10
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

I play it the same till turn.
Then I bet turn and barrel river.

I do not see any time that I c/r this flop but do not bet that turn
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

Checking the turn seems fine. I don't bet the river cause they never fold here, but it can't be that bad.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:24 PM   #12
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

Quote:
Originally Posted by albacorela View Post
Bluffs in limit (almost) always cost more than one bet.
I’m with albacorela on this, who I believe is suggesting we should have bet the turn. I’ve been known to call bluffs simply because the story I was being told didn’t make sense.

Here’s the story I’m getting:
Pre-flop: “I have a playable hand, but nothing too special, because I didn’t 3-bet.”
Check-raises flop: “I’M STRONG!”
Checks turn: “just kidding, i’m weak.”
Bets river: “I’M STRONG AGAIN!”

As a villain here, I would call if I had anything at all, because the story is inconsistent. Actually, with three of us villains still around, the bluff seems kind of hopeless.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:27 PM   #13
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

b/c turn.
As played, c/f river.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:10 AM   #14
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means View Post
Hero has QJ in the BB.

We're 6-handed at the moment.

Anyway, preflop: MP opens, BTN and SB coldcall, I call.

Flop (7.5sb, 4ppl): T96
checked to pfr who bets, 2 calls, I c/r, they all call.

Turn (7.75bb, 4 ppl): 5
checked around.

River T
sb checks, I bet.
Your hand has alot of equity on this flop so your c/r has value. No one raises the PFRaiser so their hands seem weak. The PFR just calls your c/r again a sign of a weak holding (AJ+,KQ,KJs+,77-88). Because she (PFR) does't bet the turn when you checked her range is more overcards not pairs. On the turn you still have huge equity vs their ranges and should bet for value plus since your flop c/r into 4 players seems so strong 1 or both the cold-callers may fold here, leaving you heads up with the PFR. At that point c-betting the river will fold out PFR's range enough times for this bet to be profitable.

lf both the coldcallers call the turn you're prob best c/foldind this river.
lf only 1 calls the turn its a bit tougher to bluff, but the pot is big enough, that a bet here may be break-even to marginally profitable.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:07 AM   #15
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Re: 8/16 river bruff

Heads-up against the pfr, this isn't going to work often enough. But I wonder if the fact that there are two players behind her might push her toward folding. I mean, if she has deduced that I'm probably f.o.s., that button has nothing, and sb has at best a weak two pair, she probably should raise her A-high to make sure sb doesn't overcall. But people don't do that in this game. She whispered something about "top pair..." before folding. I guess she thought I was worried about my kicker and that's why I checked the turn.
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