8/16: JJ with Q on board

[Man of Means]

ok, thanks.

usually i feel like i'm too much of a showdown monkey in tight games. Normally I would call this down and hate myself.
While the player in question has an ambiguous range, my thought was that it would be silly to raise a FD from early position with the field being multiway. The only thing I could think I'd beat is a middle pocket pair, or Ah3h which has decent equity whether others call or not.
Folding the flop just seems too weak - with the chance I spike a J on the turn plus the chance he checks behind and just how bad it looks to bet/fold in a big-ish pot after raising preflop, I figured a peel was best.

[jesse8888]

Originally Posted by pgcounty

if you are going to check and fold a relative blank like that on the turn, just fold to the flop raise.

i'm calling the turn.

agreed. i know it feels bad to call down here and get shown QJo a ton, but if you're going to pick a hand less than a queen to call down with you have it and in general you just probably shouldn't be folding here. It was a pretty multiway pot when he raised, but then it got headsup and even pretty slow players will realize "hey maybe he'll fold" and continue to fire with whatever they were free carding or cheap show down raising or whatever.

[timmer]

I like 3 betting the flop and leading the turn if he can fold a pair if he cant or your not willing to do this you should fold on the flop.

also there is no law that says you have to c bet this flop into 3 players any one of whom may very well have a queen. Obviously you didn't play JJ in an effort to get into a large multi-way pot and miss your set.

checking after you lead pre should be part of your games balance. its usually used to trap or float. but lends itself to situations such as these and allows you to get good relative position and throw in strategic variations into your post and on the flop play.

[Chasqui]

Originally Posted by GordenBombay

I pretty much 3 flop and b/f turn and river.

Do you really do this when 5 players see the flop?

What range do you give the raiser in this 5 way flop?. If you write it down you can calculate the ev of your 3b/barrel strategy knowing you make between 0.5 and 1.5BB if ahead but lose 2.5BB if behind.

On the river the pot is over 10BB, are you sure you want to bet/fold that?

[GordenBombay]

Originally Posted by Chasqui

Do you really do this when 5 players see the flop?

What range do you give the raiser in this 5 way flop?. If you write it down you can calculate the ev of your 3b/barrel strategy knowing you make between 0.5 and 1.5BB if ahead but lose 2.5BB if behind.

On the river the pot is over 10BB, are you sure you want to bet/fold that?

well, i don't really understand why your just giving him credit for top pair here. Does he never have a flush draw here? A6? 77-10?s I mean the guy is cc 66 and its heads up after he raises. Sure he could have us beat but now we also giving up on a pot with 6 bb in it. There isn't that much information on the villain and i think we have way too strong of a hand to check and fold here.

And yes I believe i play it the same in a 10bb pot because we have no read on this villain other than he is cc 66. If he was an agreessive/bluffy/spewy op I may consider trying to induce on a brick river.

[Chasqui]

Originally Posted by GordenBombay

There isn't that much information on the villain and i think we have way too strong of a hand to check and fold here.

I never advocated k/f, I'm trying to understand why you think your 3b/barrel strategy has the max ev in a flop that had 5 players to "naturally select" from.

If he has a Q we are crushed and lose the max 2.5BB, if he has an over and a flush draw we are flipping, if he has a low pair he may fold the turn, bad queens could check the river, plus if he bluff raises the river we lose the pot.

Since this is such a common (and possibly expensive) spot I thought you had some analysis to support your line.

[GordenBombay]

Well also to my understanding the villian is short stacked? I was kind of unclear of what he has for chips?