8/16: JJ with Q on board

[Man of Means]

fw 8'16: this one multiway fun

been at the table about an hour. Last time I played a hand against villain he coldcalled me with 66 and raised the flop (3-ways) on a K62hh board, and bet the remainder of his chips on the turn. He has more chips now. I don't have much else for a read other than he usually has the betting lead from preflop when he plays a hand and is not terrible.

I open JJ from utg
3 people coldcall and one of the blinds calls.

Flop (11sb, 5 ways)
Q63
I bet, next guy raises, folds back to me, I call

Turn (6.5bb, hu)
8
I check and fold

[Man of Means]

Please move to small stakes. Sorry.

[Slide]

I would call down. I think your giving villain too much credit for a hand. He could have a flush draw or a weaker hand like A6 or 99.

[pgcounty]

if you are going to check and fold a relative blank like that on the turn, just fold to the flop raise.

i'm calling the turn.

[jdr0317]

Call turn, re-evaluate if scare card comes on river.

Guy seems like a classic "c2c w/ middle pairs" type, and could be in the process of valuetowning himself w/ 99, or barreling a draw.

Unless this guy doesn't raise for thin value, then I would fold. How has he played generally? Has he shown up at sd in an aggressively played hand w/ 2nd pair, a busted draw, etc?

[Man of Means]

I don't have much showdown data on him. In my first hand, in which I posted in the cutoff and went 5 ways to the flop raised from MP, the villain was in the SB and coldcalled preflop, check/called a flush draw on the flop; the turn checked thru HU, villlain bet/called river when he made his 10-high flush. (and he lost)

The other hand I saw he fastplayed the set but was almost all-in, and otherwise he's been the preflop aggressor and hadn't run into anything difficult. So I felt like he would tend to play non-TP hands cautiously especially since this was a raised multiway pot. But your experience may be different against similar foes.

[GordenBombay]

I pretty much 3 flop and b/f turn and river.

[albacorela]

villian dependent

last time i folded the flop in this situation villian showed his flush draw

many players will lol wait to raise turn w real monster

[ninefingershuffle]

There is nothing we can tell you on this hand. Either he is the type of player that will only raise Qx or better here or he isn't.

[wubbles]

Originally Posted by albacorela

villian dependent

last time i folded the flop in this situation villian showed his flush draw

many players will lol wait to raise turn w real monster

i think you're correct about villain dependent.

playing in a super small stakes game, any raise can be considered a tell to "monster hand"

however, when you're talking about a step up (at 8/16) i think you're often looking at a typical raise for free card situation. the fact that it folded around puts you heads up, which means you have a ton of dead money in the hand and you only have to beat one person to get it.

i know one line of thinking says to fire on the turn as players are typically very reluctant to semi-bluff two streets in a row.

depending on your villain, you need to make a decision on the flop - because you're either going all the way until a third heart hits OR you're dead.

[nerdking]

grunch-ish Best case he has a FD, worst case he has Qx. I'd call/call down any missed heart on the river.

Good to see you, Drew

[mikeca]

Players will raise FDs, I think you have to call the turn and call any non-heart river.

[Captain R]

The other thing that might happen, is a scare card could come on the river (A/K/) and he checks, so you don't always have to pay off 3 bets to see a showdown OOP.

[Slide]

Originally Posted by pgcounty

if you are going to check and fold a relative blank like that on the turn, just fold to the flop raise.

This part is only true if villain never makes a free card play on the flop.

[nonsimplesimon]

Originally Posted by Man of Means

fw 8'16: this one multiway fun

been at the table about an hour. Last time I played a hand against villain he coldcalled me with 66 and raised the flop (3-ways) on a K62hh board, and bet the remainder of his chips on the turn. He has more chips now. I don't have much else for a read other than he usually has the betting lead from preflop when he plays a hand and is not terrible.

I open JJ from utg
3 people coldcall and one of the blinds calls.

Flop (11sb, 5 ways)
Q63
I bet, next guy raises, folds back to me, I call

Turn (6.5bb, hu)
8
I check and fold

grunch

so the merfer fast plays? no info on how he plays his draws ... is that all we have on him? meh - w one over card out there and a fd and we're oop ... and he's still kinda unk I think I would have to call down barring that the heart draw doesn't come in. If he were a nit ball then I might find a fold otf.

As a rule of thumb for me ... If I am just going to call otf with just two outs then I'm pretty much committing myself to sd especially HU... UNLESS ... villain is a rampant free carder - and there are some folks whom I play with regularly who abuse this play and I will call the flop and cf the turn. But this is pretty rare and 98% of the time I'm calling down here