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Old 07-08-2012, 06:59 PM   #16
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

and welcome to the forum joe
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

As said, put money into pot at every opportunity.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
Just 3! The flop and fast play your hand. Slow playing when you have a multiway pot on a wet board in lhe is stupid and unnecessary. Quit doing that right now.
This.

Ever noticed how people complain about "no fold 'em hold 'em" games and then, the moment they make a big hand, they are convinced everyone is going to fold?
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:04 PM   #19
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
This.

Ever noticed how people complain about "no fold 'em hold 'em" games and then, the moment they make a big hand, they are convinced everyone is going to fold?
Selective memory bias of others = $$ for you, at least.
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:39 AM   #20
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Selective memory bias of others = $$ for you, at least.
Absolutely. If you want to have a fun session of hold 'em sometime, play 300 or more hands against some inferior opponents and watch them closely, counting the number of times they miss obvious value. I don't mean thin value-- obviously it may be MUBSY if someone checks back their 77 against a fish on a K6632 board, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I mean obvious value hands-- top pair good kicker, small flushes, slowplayed monsters against hands that would have clearly called more bets, etc. The live games I play in are filled with this sort of thing. Every time they make this mistake against you they are transfering non-reciprocal Sklansky dollars to you.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:04 AM   #21
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Absolutely. If you want to have a fun session of hold 'em sometime, play 300 or more hands against some inferior opponents and watch them closely, counting the number of times they miss obvious value. I don't mean thin value-- obviously it may be MUBSY if someone checks back their 77 against a fish on a K6632 board, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I mean obvious value hands-- top pair good kicker, small flushes, slowplayed monsters against hands that would have clearly called more bets, etc. The live games I play in are filled with this sort of thing. Every time they make this mistake against you they are transfering non-reciprocal Sklansky dollars to you.
My favorite was when I bet an overpair on a T6322 board (I think it was), got raised by some lady who literally had k/c'd the nuts on multiple occasions, she got three'd by another crappy player, I fold (obviously), she calls, he shows 33, she shows 32 and says "this is why I never raise!".

Another guy once k/f'd a straight to me when a BDFD came in.

Knowing you're even thinking about marginal spots, like betting a medium sized pocket pair OTR for value, puts you so far ahead of the average 20/40 and below player, its a joke.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:08 AM   #22
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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My favorite was when I bet an overpair on a T6322 board (I think it was), got raised by some lady who literally had k/c'd the nuts on multiple occasions, she got three'd by another crappy player, I fold (obviously), she calls, he shows 33, she shows 32 and says "this is why I never raise!".

Another guy once k/f'd a straight to me when a BDFD came in.

Knowing you're even thinking about marginal spots, like betting a medium sized pocket pair OTR for value, puts you so far ahead of the average 20/40 and below player, its a joke.
Also worth noting that these guys think nothing of the BB they're incinerating whenever they cold call your PFR, but the river bet/raise that ends up being no good is the end of the world.

Hence why you get the money in PF, and whenever you have a monster, because they don't plan on putting it in for you (intended for OP).
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:43 AM   #23
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

you seem to hate money. the flop is wet. place money in it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:06 PM   #24
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
you seem to hate money. the flop is wet. place money in it.
LOL, Hilarious!

I'd say the only time I'd slow play this is if I had an EXTREMELY tight table image and my opponents were incredible nits. Two factors that I'd say are pretty much never happening in games I play in.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #25
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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LOL, Hilarious!

I'd say the only time I'd slow play this is if I had an EXTREMELY tight table image and my opponents were incredible nits. Two factors that I'd say are pretty much never happening in games I play in.
Yet another hilarious point: One guy started 3!'ing PF with hands like 63s against me because of my "reckless" perception. Where did I get this? For open raising J8s in the cutoff.

No one noticed I was folding PF more than anyone else at the table, but they sure did notice the raising. Aka (once again to OP), no one is EVER focusing on your range, but they are focusing on your raises without a monster as "reckless". Just put the money in, they'll assume you're bluffing.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:09 PM   #26
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Thanks for the feedback. I had never taken this line before and given the universal dislike for the line I guess ill scrap it. I thought my lucky and straightforward image + 16/32 + perceived overpair from good player made the play reasonable.

I feel like overpair guy is more annoyed by my line on turn and river rather than me announcing trips plus on turn with CR. But I understand that annoying somebody doesn't equate to good decision.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:37 AM   #27
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

I just 3! the flop. As played on the flop, I also raise the turn. There are many draws which UTG will call with drawing dead and he may even call 2 cold w/ just a J as I see it all the time. Don't underestimate the willingness of your opponents to give you boatloads of chips.

Also, it sure would suck if your opponents got all MUBsy and checked behind the river.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:35 AM   #28
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Originally Posted by JoeSixPutt View Post
My thinking on the turn is that I don't want to lose UTG with his draw or J on turn with a cr. I am rooting for the draw to come in. I feel like I can only win 3 BB from UTG+3 no matter what I do but this way I keep turn bet from UTG and also give him chance to also lose 2 on river if he has draw and hits.
A major problem with this thinking is with only one card left to come, he will hit that draw a very low percentage of the time. He will miss around 80-85 percent of the time and just fold. In those situations, all you did was make it cheap for him to draw, and he gets to fold on the river when he misses.

Also, because you're not more aggressive on the turn, you won't put him in situtions when he does pay you off on the turn, hits on the river, and pays you off again on the river.

I'd be surprised if this player folds flush and straight draws on the turn that easily. Didn't you say this was a loose player? Even if your opponent thinks you are ahead, I'm sure he will think that a straight or flush will be enough to win. I would expect a loose player to be tempted enough to call. The last thing a loose player wants to do is fold, watch their draw hit on the river, and miss the chance to win a pot with a huge hand. I don't know of any loose players who like to fold straight draws and flush draws. I'm a tight player and even I don't like to fold those hands.

Last edited by Steve00007; 07-12-2012 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:41 AM   #29
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

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Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon View Post
Just 3! The flop and fast play your hand. Slow playing when you have a multiway pot on a wet board in lhe is stupid and unnecessary. Quit doing that right now.
+ infinity. You probably lost a ton of money slowplaying the hand.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #30
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Re: 8/16 I wait till the river

I b/3 bet on the flop. draws on board multiway yeah I get that money in now!! doubley so as a killer who is looking to protect it and or set up a late street bluff.
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