I learned to play hold'em before the NL boom and played hundreds of hours of live limit from 3/6 to 20/40, but that was many years ago and i'm pretty out of practice and not really familiar with what's up with today's games. So at the casino i've been playing at recently (northern california), if i'm going to be waiting for more than a few minutes for my seat in my usual NL game, i often move down to the lower stakes limit games and kind of have some fun with the green chips - while also trying to resharpen my limit skills because they have some bigger limit games in this place too that are often pretty juicy looking.

Anyway as would be expected, i've only been at the table an orbit or two so i dont really know the players, and chances are they don't know me either. During the short time i've been there ive been a little more active than the average tag, but nothing too out of line, though i am down about half a rack and may have been muttering to myself about it.

Anyway the hand - it's the first killpot in the 20mins or so i've been there, and the killer (half kill) is a younger asian kid who def seems to be a rec player and there to have fun. The villain in the hand is an older asian fella who has the air of a taggy player but again i dont really know. Also, the players in the blinds seemed pretty loose both pre and post, and i expected at least one of them to come along if i did. So...

Preflop: ($24) (killpot) utg raises to $24, killer calls $24 in mp, hero (A5) calls from cutoff, and btn and blinds fold :/

Flop (~$80) J73 utg bets $12, killer folds, hero calls.

Turn (~$104) Q utg bets $24, hero calls.

River blank, utg bets hero folds.

At the time it all seemed pretty standard, but im used to thinking like a NL player where if you're reasonably deep this is an easy call or squeeze pre against most players, but in limit of course you have a pretty good idea of what sort of implied odds you're going to have - and you're not gonna stack the guy unless he's shortstacked, nor is pushing him off a mediocre hand on a later street going to be a very likely option - So should i even be in the hand with A5 vs a utg raiser and only one caller thusfar? Assuming that one or more of the loose passives behind me are likely to come along?

on the flop i often like to float or raise in pos with an overcard and multiple backdoor opportunities, but is this too fancy for low limit?

on the turn felt like a straightforward call at the time, but if i were to raise here would the average player be folding like anything? is this a spot a good player would raise vs a tag?

Anyway, sorry if this was overly wordy, or if i came off sounding like an coolguy NL player, but any advice from winning green chip players would be appreciated because i am trying to figure out what thought processes are like at this limit level (and above it)

IMO the call preflop is too loose. Could be ok if it's going to likely be a multiway pot, but that's less likely in a kill pot. Flop call is really bad, you're basically drawing to nothing. Only way I think it could be partially justifies is as a float if you think you might be able to steal the pot later, like with a semi-bluff n the turn if you picked up a draw....but then you didn't do that either. Just pissing away chips here.

Yup. People playing hands like this (floating to improve instead of steal it away) contribute heavily to my recent win rate. Preflop is a fold unless everyone behind you is giving a major call tell. Flop is an easy fold. Once you reach the turn, it's a pretty trivial continue.

I think this hand was played properly.

A5 suited has decent equity in the cut-off after a raise and a call, and often times our call is at least going to invite the BB in, which is even better. Sometimes we will end up going 6 ways to the flop. But if we end up 3 ways, we will have position.

On the flop, 7 bets went in preflop (BB+SB = 1 bet in a 1/2 kill pot), and the eighth bet just went in. We have an ace and backdoor straight and flush draws. Getting 8 to 1, that's fine.

Turn is a truly obvious call.

The river is a fold because we don't beat anything in his range.

Lawdude, I think you're disregarding the fact that the Ace outs are very dirty. Each Ace not in the hero's hand is more likely to be in the preflop raiser's hand than is any other card in the deck, and if one is there, he certainly has a better kicker.

I guess I overstated by terming flop call "really bad", but I think it is clearly wrong without any particular reads or at least a plan to be able to sometimes win the pot unimproved.

feels like a thoughtful and intelligent response from a seasoned veteran. glad to see there are some in this forum with experience and attention to detail.

Fold pre. You want this to be 5-6 ways for AXs to be profitable, and blinds are tighter in kill pots.

As played, fold flop. I'm not sure what you're trying to hit, but there's no card that hits that pulls you ahead and no card that hits that you get fold equity.

As played, turn card is fine. River fold is fine too.

I think A5s is close. I'd much prefer 89s.

Killer's range is likely 100% - top 7%. A blind or two might come along

UTG 45.49% top 12%
Kill 23.35% 10-100%
Hero 31.29% A5s

UTG 35.51% top 12%
Kill 18.01% 10-100%
Hero 24.88% A5s
BB 21.60% defend range v CO


Flop is an easy fold unless nitty asian dude is bad/predictable and known to check/fold on future streets.

i think calling pre is fine if you play well post, but if you are going to peel the flop you should probably just fold pre.

Pre: cold call A5s = bad
Flop: easy fold. If you 'must' play it then might as well raise it, you get the check back on the turn most of the time and you can look at the river for free.

As played, call turn fold river.

Anyone like raising the flop to free card turn blanks and semi bluffing diamond turns. There are some hands recreational players would raise their kill with that we are ahead of (KQ, KT, QTss, 9Tss) also they might dump 22-44.

I'm either popping the pot up to make sure I maintain position and push out the btn and blinds or folding here, basically 100% never cold calling. That said I prefer easy decisions and likely fold trash here. Also not sure why we like this flop enough to donate more money.

you want to 3b an utg open in a kill pot with a5s? that feels a bit optimistic since we isolate a range that is far ahead of us and our hand does well multiway as the pot is looking to be

I agree about 3b being meh and I don't enter the hand here at all, I meant to say that of all of the options cold calling seems the most disgusting. But I don't think it's good to play passive limit and limp in/cold call into any pots tbh, these are just hands where you are admitting to yourself you are behind in equity and are better off folding imo. But I probably play tighter than a lot of people on here, and im guessing a lot more aggressively as well when I do enter a pot.

What would you do with T9s here?

I mean, you can't never call.

i woulda raised the river. an utg raiser could not have connected that flop or turn. so unless the guy is a calling station im raising river.then again maybe raise turn to see where your at.

Pre flop. Terrible
Flop. Terrible

Turn I'm raising and bluffing a blank River.

As played. River fold is fine.


Pf is really really bad.