We also have to consider that say we were to three bet the flop and our passenger took two to the face. Surely she is likely to have a made hand, and even less likely to fold it for a billion to one on the river.

Moreover, it seems unlikely that even a steamed drunk would just cap a KTxtt flop w/ ATC three ways. If we really want, we can make what I'd consider to be a mistake and call the river totally unimproved, if it runs out favorable to do so (like two red aces).

Let's not forget that not only do we make a monster on 11 cards, but putting down any of the non spade 8's or 7's improve our straight draw (OESD in the former, and DGSSD in the latter). Even without these added outs, we've a near 42% chance of making our hand, and would almost be almost guaranteed to be good. Tell me I can get 12 sb pot into the pot, 4 of them being mine, entitled to 4.9 sb? Even OOP, seems too good to pass up.

Weird turn card. Generally speaking if you hulk smash the flop with a draw and it gets hu on the turn you must hulk smash and never stop. This card tho.... Meh

Slam dunk check laise in river. Unless you're on the tubes and his river AF is .4

**** you Cali

I think check raising the turn w/ the fish still in the pot and left to act behind is horribad. The fold equity gained doesn't offset the pot padding of the fish in this spot, IMO. Like, do we expect a tilting drunk to fold T8 here?

Like I said weirdo turn card. if I donked this flop I'd have been doing it to three bet and if I had check/raised I'd have been doing it to four bet. In other words I would have never stopped smashing the flop. Hulk has combo draw? smash

But I do this cause in LA I can donk/3 or check/raise four with like naked top pear for value easily.

Wait, so all the guy's that used to bet 3 bet flops with middle pair in a five way pot at a six handed table on Pokerstars, they all moved to LA after black friday?

FML.

Ah okay. Thought you meant you wanted to raise the turn.
Carry on

The guy has raised 5 hands in a row. This is a flop check raise 100%. He could have T high. Check raise 4 bet the flop and go from there

As played I'm betting the river.

We have J high. We want people to fold.

This is a good post.

We are winning this close to 50% of the time with a very strong hand, having it be a 3 way pot doesn't change this by much, but putting only 1/3 of the money in the middle is very good for us.

Yes, there's the corner case of the button betting air and a check raise will take it, but in those cases we'll frequently win by making a pair after calling.

I really dislike the check raise. The only merit I see would be against a totally crazy maniac that'd 3 bet no pair no draw trying to make us fold (aka LA poker)

You want this heads up vs the button. So you check raise to get it heads up with the button.

If the limper cold calls, that's good too.


The pot is big enough and we can win this UI by playing aggressively.

Isn't that a terrible turn card for the barrel off plan? We're blocking some straight and flush draws. If the villain calls a with K on the flop and then an A on the river, is firing the third time now good? He's seen all the scare cards.

This.

I believe other factors make bluffing Q high less important (plus occasionally hands like 44, A6) With our equity so high, we shouldn't mind the limper aboard padding 33% of the pot for the large % of the time we make our hand.

Interesting spot

Just forget about the limper. If he folds. That's good. If he cold calls two, that's good too.

The button has raised 5 hands in a row and can have 6 high here. If we check raise and get the limper to fold we are going to win this pot a lot UI and also by hitting.

If he has 6 high I want him betting every street, not folding.

To help me understand your point better, can you list the hands that you think he'd really fold that we wouldn't want him to bluff every street with?

So you are planning on check calling down UI with j high?

He can fold ax or Kx if you barrel.


I didn't realize you were calling the flop with the intention of blindly calling down 3 streets with j high


It's not so much him folding a "better" hand, I don't want to lose to T9 off that battles these streets vs us.

While a lofty goal, getting someone to fold top pair or second pair in a wide range situation (or live game for that matter) is a bit unrealistic. If your assumptions are that he'll fold top or second pair then check raise is clearly correct, and it should be with any two cards (end of the argument too, my assumptions are different)

On another topic, your previous reason for a check raise was that he has 6 high a lot. My argument was that if that's the case then I'd rather let him bluff every street when we are 80+% against an airball range, and make 2.5 BB more!

We don't know what he has. He might fold a small PP of the board gets bad and we have j high. This guy is never folding a pair though. If I said Kx and there was a king on the flop. Ignore that.

Interesting idea, but we have an incomplete read of villain. If OP had said he's doing a lot of c-betting but is giving up easily after that, then sure, there's merit to the c/r, barrel. I guess I just assumed he's the usual kind of drunk lag that gets invested and will show down with any pair, etc.

Xr the flop is just so standard here. I'm shocked there's any disagreement at all.

No way man. Let's check call down with jack high

I'd 3 bet flop here. Turn u could ck/raise as it's a decent spot to try and semi bluff one home. Not doing that I do like the river bet