6/12 Oaks

V1 (UTG): Bad thinking lag. Plays too loose pre (limps/calls hands like 52o), raises to isolate with hands like Q8o from hijack, but gets tons of action from his good hands. Will raise flops with 2nd pair and slow down on river. Is currently sitting on mountain of chips. Hard to read.

V2(UTG+1): Stuck Indian guy trying to adjust to V1 by 3betting lighter and being aggressive postflop. Sits to V1's left.

Me(SB): Active, shown down winners every single time. Table sees me as capable of raising light pre (e.g. open JTo hijack against lojack poster). Up ~2 racks.

V3 (BB): Loose stuck player that normally plays tighter. Bluffs a little too much.

V1 raises, V2 3bets, I cap black titties (TT), BB calls.

Flop: 8 6 3 (Pot~15 sb)
I lead, V3 calls, V1 folds, V2 raises, I 3bet. Rest of hand is probably not interesting.

Q1: Thoughts on leading flop vs c/raising?
Q2: If V2 is either straightforward/TAG/loose-passive, thoughts on 3betting vs calling on flop? (Do we want to put in additional aggression in the hopes of folding out BB even though we are behind V2's range?)
Q3: Follow-up to Q2; how does it change if we have JJ-QQ?

I think this is fine.

Re Q1: As you know, I know this game well, and I have seen many occasions when it's capped preflop and gets checked around on a flop like this. That would be a disaster here, so yes, lead out IMO.

I'm not sure I understand Q2. What is V2 again? Regardless of the answer to that, I'm 3-betting this flop.

If you are behind V2's range, then no, I don't think you should 3-bet.

@Captain R: Behind meaning, <50%, or <66%? Isn't it affected by the presence of BB who might have 5-6 outs (and who, if he calls, pads us even when we're behind the other villain's range; and if he folds, we capture more equity?)

I mean, it depends on what his range is, the size of the pot, the probability villain folds, and how much your equity is going to increase. I can't do the math, but I'm sure you can calculate it.

I imagine V2's range usually has you either crushed to 2 outs, or is somewhere around 50%. 24 combos of AA-JJ, 3 combos of 88, you're ahead of 99 and roughly tied with two overcards and a draw. So he needs to be spazzing out with AK or 77 a fair amount to offset putting in additional bets at like a 27:6 loss rate. There could be a few AX flush draws also.

So I think your equity % increase of the pot has to be > putting in additional bets at a loss to make 3-betting desirable. I don't know what it is, but I imagine you raise it a few % points.

I mean, what's your flop equity when you lead, like 35-40% or something 3-ways? It must plummet when V2 raises, and you can raise it again, but you're probably just putting in additional money isolating yourself something like a 7:3 dog to V2.

These are just random numbers, but it's probably somewhere around there.

I would bet/call the flop. V2 would have to be spazzing out big time for you not to be crushed by his range. Whatever you were to gain by knocking out the BB you would lose plus some back to V2 given your range deficit and your positional disadvantage.

+1

Also note that V1 folded the first time around, which reduces the chances that V2 is being a dick.

I am probably going to get endless **** for suggesting this, but I would not 4bet preflop. You are against a UTG raise and a UTG+1 3bet in a 6/12 game.

This is Oaks 6/12 -- it's "special." People routinely cap it preflop with hands that are crushed by TT.

It's also a hand with decent RIO in this situation. If an A flops, and people like it, you can easily let it go. But if the flop comes up rags, you can bet hard like the OP did, and you're going to have the best hand most of the time. And anyone with a smaller pair is going to chase it to the river and pay you off. I've seen this so many times at Oaks that I consider OP's play standard here.

On occasion, yes, you'll run into a bigger pair, but in this game, you can only tip your hat.

for some context, saw V2 3bet pre from lojack with 33 vs V1 and barrel off post flop (caught a straight on the river)

if V2 had a more standard range, how strong of a hand do ppl recommend start b/3betting the flop with? (QQ? 12 higher pairs and 12 lower pairs, +AdKd/AdQd. But once again, presence of BB makes me want to add JJ. Guess TT is still too weak?)

Captain's post is really good, not much for anyone to add

This, exactly.

Part of the problem with posting hands on this website is that most posters just don't know how bad your opponents are.

Eh, my fault for not putting that hand history in original post. "... trying to adjust to V1 by 3betting lighter and being aggressive postflop" is still very general.

Gonna post some stoves in response to Captain R's post to take a look at what our equity looks like trying to push out BB versus keeping him in.

Hi everyone! Decided to come back and share some alleged wisdom.

I think the Captain nailed this hand, but I also wanted to say something in addition.

There are exceptions to this, but usually cappers are placed on fairly strong ranges. Certainly cappers who don't recklessly cap all the time are placed on fairly strong ranges.

I get nit-rolled all the time when I cap. E.g., I will cap with TT like OP did, bet 3 streets post-flop and lose to KK, with the guy saying "I put you on aces".

So I think your starting point should always be that if you cap and get raised on the flop, that's a pretty strong move. I'm certainly not assuming, in general, that I am ahead unimproved with TT (or even JJ).