Live (and very loose passive) $4/8 game. I have 54 of clubs in the SB. Five people limp, I call for $2 more, BB checks.

Flop is 2h 3c Js

I bet, 3 people call.

Turn is 4s

I bet, one person calls.

River Jh

I check. Opponent checks behind.

I'd bet river and hope to be called by 3x/2x

I was wondering if I should have done that.

I don't think many 2x and 3x get played and you lose to most 4x plus a lot of pocket pairs (55-TT).

I almost said exactly this last night, but was afraid of getting taken downtown by the missed value police.

I'd certainly bet but it depends a bit on what position the villain is in. The later position he is in, the more likely I am to bet. If he limps in after a bunch of people, his range likely includes a lot of suited 2s and 3s, and not so many 4s except maybe a4 and 46.

I think this is a reasonable hand to check here. Since they're passive, they show up with a lot stronger hands than one should have here (including Jx), so I think we value cut ourselves a fair bit.

i have no idea why we should bet the flop here....

I would also have checked the flop

I was betting for value, because based on how loose passive the game was, I thought it likely I'd get a lot of callers. There had not been much raising at all, either pre or post flop. Even if someone raised, with that lineup I would probably get at least one cold call, maybe more. I figured I was going to make my straight a third of the time, and would get at least 3-4 callers on the flop. The backdoor flush draw was not worth much, but at least the flop was rainbow. If it was rainbow or the game was not playing so loose passive, I would have checked.

A nut low value bet?

Betting the flop for value is a no-brainer especially when you consider the implied odds if an ace hits. I don't understand the controversy there one bit.

EDIT I didn't realize we were completely out of position here. But the worst-case scenario is bet fold fold fold raise, and even then we still have plenty of equity. If the table is as passive as OP says it's unlikely more than 2 people are going to fold the flop. If a player in late position raises, we can just call and then check-raise the turn if we make our hand.

Betting the flop is a small mistake at worst IMHO. I think it's correct.

I could take it or leave it. I just like the phrase nut low value bet

Ya I've no idea why we need to criticize flop bet. We can bet, see what happens and make decisions on whether to barrel off with air or not.

Flop bet depends on where the gamblers are in the hand, if any. If the guys most likely to raise thin, or spew are on your left don't bet because you're just going to end up isolating yourself against s "better" hand than nut low. If it's passive nits on your left then if you wanna

Sometimes c/r because **** those guys

Would you rather pay ( even 2 bets for it if raised ) or not to see the turn card ?
We lose a lot of IO if we are getting raise by an EP player on the flop.
Can we really expect us to win this hand without a SD vs 6 player by simply betting all streets ?

I rather check and see and if no bets went in i have no problem with it because we have 4 high.

You realize we have an OESD to the nuts on a rainbow board, right? Hero is not going anywhere and has a ton of equity against everything.

Plus when the Ace hits the turn they're gonna raise their Aces up quite frequently. Then we get to 3 bet the turn with a ton of equity.

Instead if we check call the flop we gotta donk a turned straight Cus they're gonna check back frequently. Our hand is much more readable so they'll just call with those same two pairs more frequently.

So you are suggesting we should jam the flop regardless we face 1 or 4 opponents on the flop ( and what happened on the turn when we miss after we jam the flop vs still 2 or more players ? nice c/c turn i guess ? ending right in the same place has on the flop but with less money in our pockets and not able to put in a c/r in favorable circumstances because people expect us to lead the turn) ?
We do not care getting isoraise and losing a lot of players on the flop ?
Should we feel confident on the river to bet if we hit a pair ?
We have no bd flush draw.
it is true we have an oesd but not all oesd are the same imo.
We have basically nothing more than : have to hit to win this hand, so i rather play it quietly and see how the hand develops and make a better judgement play on the turn.

Btw, you still did not answered my question, would you rather have a free card or pay money in the pot on the flop ?

I see, so if we show strength on the flop and keep leading the turn when an A hit we should expect a lot of action but if we check/call the flop showing huge weakness we should not expect action on the turn and should lead out when we hit ?
Should'nt it be the other way around ?

If I can get called by 3-4 passive players with 30% equity, then I'd much rather bet

What zomg said. It depends on where you think the bet is going to come from when you check. It would duck to bet and have the next guy raise out the field

Because when we check call the flop our hand looks like a draw. Then we donk the turn and it looks like our draw came in.

Well i would not donk the turn my straight ( beside an A), if i hit probably going for the c/r.
if a 6 or a 5 hit the turn , i am pretty sure a pair of J still bet the turn.
And if loose passif player bets the flop, pretty sure they bet again .

Anyway, let just say u bet the flop, 2-3 caller, turn you miss, than what ?
bet again has a semi bluff with around16-18% equity vs 3 player is good ?

i am way more happy not putting money on the flop and see how the hands play out when i have absolutely 0 SD value, no bd draw of any kind, like 0% fold equity vs 5 or 6 players and an equity advantage that probably phaseout out on the turn depending on how many players fold the flop.

We do have a backdoor draw though. The 3c is on board.

We can decide what to do On the turn. Check mostly, bet again if HU, maybe bet again if 3 way, always bet if we get there. If someone is likely to bet for us, we can check and see what happens on the flop. But not wanting to put $ in the pot with an OESD 6 ways is way too nitty.