Because we have an equity edge, and because our opponents are loose-passives and are less likely to isolate us into a headsup situation. Bet and expect tons of callers and loving it.

You want bets to go in when you have an equity edge, and not put in bets when you have an equity deficit. Take a more drastic case of where we flop an open-ended straight flush draw. It doesn't matter if we have 5hi if our equity is 50% 5 ways.

+1 jdr's analysis

I'd rather ensure bets going in when we have an equity edge. If I'm going to bet the flop with Jx and again on the turn, I most certainly want to bet 54s and discourage my hand from being face up.

The main reason not to bet the flop with draws is the fear of being isolated to the point where we don't have an equity edge anymore. Loose-passive players, by definition, do not raise enough.

When you check the flop and the flop gets checked through, that's a failed bet going in with an equity edge. When you c/c the flop and attempt a c/raise on a scare card on the turn and it gets checked through, you miss another bet when you have an equity edge.

Plus, there might be 3bets going in on the turn against aces-up.

OP, well played until river. Whether to c/c or b/f is largely dependent on:
1. Likelihood of villain to bluff river.
2. Villain's peel range on the flop/turn
3. How villain handles top pair and middling pairs

As a default, I usually bet. A lot of A2/A3 gets there this way, and we can actually fold out some better hands (e.g. A4, maybe even 55/66). If you think about the distribution of hands we play the flop and turn this way, we are heavily value-oriented, because we are OOP and betting into the field. Betting with 54 protects our Jx range somewhat, and will sometimes be for value anyway.

If I played against an opponent who split their river range into 1) I bet river with Jx/FH 2) Check everything else, it makes my life easy. I can exploitatively fold my A2/A3s hands, value bet my A4s/66-55.

I don't like betting the flop in this spot, but not because I mind bets going in. It's because OOP it's so difficult to manipulate the action after us. If we bet and the next guy raises and everyone folds, that's pretty lame. I'd rather check and see what happens and make a decision with more information. If we were on the button, I'd be more excited about betting or raising.

I disagree with most of what bob148 has said in this thread. Montrealcorp got it right with his response about whether or not we can x/r the turn. But, bob, I think you're way off if you think x/c'ing makes our hand look like one thing more than another. This is $4/$8 where the vast majority of the players have zero hand reading skills whatsoever and just think to themselves, "wheeeeeeee! I've got aces up. That good hand. I raise!"

I just think checking gives us more options in this spot. We check, the next guy bets and everyone calls, x/r the field if you want as long as we check the turn when we miss. Or just x/c. It doesn't really matter too much. Or check and if it checks around to the button, x/r his ass and barrel off if he's the only one who calls.

I think betting the river is pretty bad for the reasons calli pointed out earlier.

BTW, I don't think betting the flop is bad, I just prefer to check since that's how I'm going to play the majority of my hands here.

+1 rodeo

Just adding, in TOP and lot around here, everyone talking about the dreaded free card, while if we take the check/call line on this flop but it end up checked around with our 4 high draw it should be bad o0 .

Moreover, here, if we bet the flop it is has a semi bluff correct ?
How can semi-bluffing here is good vs loose passif player ?
A correct semi bluff is when you actually have some chance of winning without hitting your draw by making your opponent(s) fold.
It will not happen here.

Here the only reason to bet is that we have some kind of equity edge which, depending on the action, could phaseout pretty quickly if we get isoraise or w.e.
i rather check the flop and see like rodeo said and put action where it is deserved to.
maybe as well, if BU bet it could be an alternative to only call and entice all the loose passive players to call and donk the turn if i hit putting the field in between.
conclusion: checking give us a lot more flexibility .

i rather pay cheaply my draw in multiway pot and put action when i can collect my IO's. ( unless we would have a really big draw (12-13 outs+ or we would have a great position like the BU) which with we could jam on the flop and have no problem to bet on the turn in almost any situation)

Imo not all draw need to be played aggressively when OOP.

The main problem I have with this analysis is that loose passives arent betting enough. You're going to miss the craise on the flop and turn a lot. But the likelihod of getting 3bets in vs 2 on the turn stays roughly the same (we can debate that perhaps).

ur not getting isoraised nearly that often. some loose passives dont even have a flop raising range. flop bet is as much for value as it is to protect our equity. i dont want the 5x/4x seeing the turn cheaply. Ax isnt folding the flop, because loose passives dont fold.

That's a bad plan. If you make your straight, you want people to put money in the pot. If you check to the late position bettor and raise, the field now has to call two bets cold. That seems like a bad result. The pot isn't so enormous that protecting your hand outweighs extracting bets from multiple players. Also, if the turn card is an A, how likely is the flop raiser (with a likely Jx) to bet the turn if it checks to him?

As for the hand itself, I think checking or betting flop is fine. By default, I would probably lean towards checking because betting and getting raised by someone on your direct left would be undesirable. If the game is really loose and passive then betting is probably better because I'd like some money to go in on the flop and we aren't likely to be raised. As played, I'd definitely bet the turn.

I think the river is close. I love finding spots for thin value and getting paid off. This is a tough one. I'm honestly torn about it. It's probably a check, but in real time, I probably couldn't resist betting. Wouldn't be the first time I value towned myself.

I bet this flop almost always. You guys are really worried about getting ISO'd in a live 4/8 game? Usually you bet and everyone calls, exactly what you want.