I wasn't going to post this, because I felt like it was very similar to a thread I had made a few weeks ago, but I am kind of curious and trying to find scenarios where certain ways of playing are appropriate, etc etc. My last thread, it was pretty unanimous about how the flop should have been played, so maybe this will show the same results, but here it is anyways...

I am about to rack up my chips, and I get QQ UTG+1 or 2. It's folded to me and I raise. Two people cold call in LP, an Asian lady and a villain who is a youngish white guy. Forget if one of the blinds called.

Flop is 445

I lead, Asian lady calls, Villain raises, folded to me and I 3!
Asian lady folds, Villain calls.

Turn is a 9
I bet, Villain raises, I call

River is a Q (How do I get so lucky!! )

I?

Some thoughts ... when villain raised the flop, I didn't think it meant a whole lot. He could be raising for various free cards, raising a 4 (though I didn't really think he's necessarily have a 4 in his PF cold calling range), etc etc. His raise on the turn worried me a little, however. I hadn't played much against Villain, but I had pegged him as a solid player. He was running very bad this session, and seemed fairly tilted, as he was mumbling to himself and shaking his head after all hands. I wanted to tell him that he looked like a bobblehead.

With the caveat that I have a lot of work to do, and at the risk of getting hit with a link to BBB's PSA, maybe this is a good spot for a check/raise?

Villain's flop raise could mean 4x, FD, SD, maybe even a 5 or something like 88. But when you 3!, he just calls, then you lead a spade turn and he raises, it looks an awful lot like 4x or flush to me. If he has a flush or a FH, this card shouldn't scare him, so I would expect him to bet again. If he was going ape with a SD, obv he won't call, so the only way you make money from that is for him to lead.

I think its basically wrong not to donk again...

hard to get 3B in w/o betting

At low limits like 3/6 and 4/8 there are so many passive players that would check behind on the river, even with a very strong hand. They miss tons of value on the river. In this spot I would usually bet the river. If he has a flush, trip 4s or a smaller full house, he might raise the river, so you can 3 bet.

Note: if you lost to quad fours, and you didn't lose a lot on the river, you didn't play it right.

Ha! Love that! Makes me feel a lot better about my habit of running into quads!

A solid player would generally cbet after raising the river because FSDR = NOT SOLID. Anyway - so I would typically cr if he's .... "solid". If he's not solid and is prone to making screwey plays like checking back otr after raising ott then just bet. OR if he's not solid and gets mubs and passive like all the rest of the douche bags at these limits and check behind and miss value - bet. So if he's really NOT solid then bet Besides - if you don't bet you don't get to 3! ...

really my point is you've got to be rock solid on your read of him being ... "solid" in order to safely cr or not. Pun intended btw.

oh - and unrack those chips man! (assuming you don't run into quads )

What does FSDR = NOT SOLID mean? I tried to figure out FSDR...flush and straight draw?

Well, the chips were already racked for the most part, except for maybe 15 bucks as a working stack. I didn't figure I'd get QQ!

As for my read on him...here is what I thought as I was making a decision as to whether to lead or not, and some thoughts afterwards as well....

When the river came so brilliantly, I was fairly certain that if I checked, he would bet. I wasn't very certain that if I led, that he'd raise. So it was a matter of weighing out the cost/vs reward type of thing. Check and most likely get 2 bets on the river, or bet and potentially get 3, or just 1.

I haven't played with him enough to really determine how correct my read is on him being solid, but that's just how I pegged him. He plays the 20/40 game sometimes (not that THAT in itself was a great indicator), and just isn't the standard $4/$8 player, I guess.

Dont try and get fancy, lost a lot of bets that way. BET if you get called its great, someone might even have a mental lapse and raise you with a flush or a smaller boat in which case you 3bet all day long. But trying to get in a fancy c/r will only cost you money more often then not.

Rita-

It's sexy time on the river.

My best,

doc

Pretty standard C/R on the river. The Qc is really a blank at this point given the level of strength villain is repping (he should have at least a flush at this point.) I would cap a 3-bet, 44, 55, & 99 are consistent with his line if he 3-bets the river and we crush that range.

From the times I've played with the "white kid" villain I'd say he's better then most of the 4/8 field but he has plenty of leaks... besides tilting a lot all the time (note from a few dealers). I'd say the biggest argument is finding out how often hell raise your river donk. He'll bet that river all night and pay off like 95% of time. So guaranteed 2 bets or go for 3!? I think long term u make more with c/r.

The safe play is to c/r. You nearly always win 2 bets, occassionally 4.
I wouldn't worry about a check on the river too much. V has shown immense strength and seems to be a fairly aggressive player.

Who me? I never play like that!

I ended up checking the river on this hand - I wasn't too worried about him not betting. I was only worried about him flatting a bet. He bet, I raised, he called.

While I giggled deliriously inside my head when I hit the river, I couldn't help but feel a BIT bad for the guy. He really had been running like shiet! But then I got to see him clap and say, "Good job getting there and spiking a two outer. Good job" and proceed to do the head bobble thing, and to go on about how he had given me wayyy too much respect as a player. Then I just went back to giggling deliriously. He had flopped a boat with 55.

Anyways, glad this wasn't a unanimous "MUST BET THE RIVER" thing. I am trying to better apply checkraises, and not FPS the turn too much, because like others have pointed out, it closes the action and kinda screams having the nuts. I honestly feel like limit poker has changed a bit since I played it more actively too, a few years back.

After the turn action, the river c/r isn't fancy, it's standard... and you'll forfeit an extra bet more times than not if you don't do it.