4/8 live

folds around to mp raise

I am in the cutoff and reraise with pocket kings (I think table perceives me as loose aggressive)

fold to sb who calls
bb also calls

mp reraises (solid and aggressive player), I cap both blinds call

flop A 10 5 rainbow

sb, bb, mp check I bet - 3 callers

turn 6 makes flush impossible sb checks, bb checks mp bets I call as do both blinds

river 2, both blinds check, mp bets, I call both blinds fold

think I played preflop correctly, not so most post - thoughts please?

Pre is fine - just count the money you are making from the blinds taking 4 to the face without ever raising...

Personally, I like the flop bet; the Ace might persuade people to depart (unlikely I know but..) when MP declines to raise closing the action I don't put him on a bone crusher hand, esp if he is a decent player. I should qualify this by saying I don't play live and the dynamic might be different to online lower stakes games...

You have to call t/r given the amount of bets in the pot - you'll hate it and probably lose to some weird AQ maybe...but maybe not if MP sees you as LAG they might put on worse than what you have...You could argue for raising turn and taking free showdown, but if mp 3 bangs it can you really find a fold at LHE...?...might also get bodgit and scarper out of the hand and enable you to take some the equity they are folding...

Start by thinking about MP's raise/4 bet range preflop. Is he ever out of line?

The real question you have to ask yourself is "what hands does the MP player c/c on the flop and then donk into the preflop 5 bettor on a blank turn?" You think this player has you as a LAG and yet MP takes this very strange line. You have a 13BB pot on the turn with only 1 bet on the flop and the turn donk. Assuming blinds call, you're getting like 15:1. Any doubt makes calling down in a huge pot somewhat credible. OTOH, donk bluffing the turn seems odd so a player you think is sold doesn't think you have (or doesn't care you have) AK or AA.

At some point you have to decide if MP "always has it" enough to fold 2nd pair in a huge pot. Does MP think you'll fold hands you shouldn't? Is MP super trustworthy in multiway pots on big streets? Does the odd line make you think there are enough BS hands to shrug and call down?

I agree with your line. MP didn't bet out on the turn or c/r you so I put him on a good hand but something you are crushing right now.

Only worry is if you think he is playing a weak suited Ace and was afraid of kicker trouble. I think 4-8 is pretty typical for the 3! with weak suited aces multiway. Just my own limited personal experience anyhow. It's only good for you in the long run.

Either way with the blinds calling the cap I think your kinda stuck calling down at the worst with 120$ in the pot and 8$ to see if its going to be yours or not.

What was the outcome of the hand if you don't mind?

MP _did_ bet out on the turn.

I'm guessing this game is in Vegas, since there was a 5-bet cap? Though I guess it could be MN.

Anyway, there are definitely some players against whom you can get away from your hand here. There are even some stereotypes against whom I might fold with very little additional read. But against a standard player with no reads you have to call down. Then see what he shows down, watch him in similar spots, and figure out better how you should be playing against him in the future.

Don't feel bad regardless though, this is a horribly tough spot.

Yeh I messed that up. Either way I would cd with my KK

Thanks all for the replies. I actually won the hand, MP showed pocket queens. I was just very confused by the turn bet and thought I definitely could have played it better.

I was also concerned because either of the blinds would call with any ace, so I thought I could be losing to ace rag. They both said they folded low pockets and were looking for a set after the hand ended.

What does cd mean?

Call down.

How do you think you could have played it better? Raising turn or river would have been terrible, and being results oriented, likely would have won you a smaller pot anyway.

I am not sure. There was an older man at the table critiquing my play almost every hand, including this one. He took the fun out of the game for a while, and there was only one table running so I couldn't transfer.

It started because I had pocket eights in the BB and it was capped before it got to me. I called figuring if I hit my set, I could win a big pot. If I didn't, I would get out right away. I did hit my set to beat his kings. He said (under his breath but intentionally loud enough for me to hear) great, reward the idiots.

I also wanted to post that hand, but didn't want to create a bunch of threads. If anyone wouldn't mind offering their opinion on calling a capped bet out of the blinds with a small pocket pair hoping to hit a set I would appreciate that as well.

One thing that is very useful to remember in a lot of situations is that the object is to make the most money, not to impress the people at the table.

I tend to think that's one of the reasons why a lot of bad players slowplay too much. They want the satisfaction of their opponents at the table knowing they pulled off a successful deception. It's also why a lot of fish call way too much on the river in no limit-- they don't want to fold and be embarrassed at the table when they are shown a bluff.

But similarly, if there's someone at the table critiquing your play, ignore it. Not only could the player be leveling you and giving deliberately bad advice, or giving you bad advice because he doesn't know any better, but even if he is right, the time to deal with that is after the session is over when you can dispassionately review your play, not during a session when you need to pay attention, get reads, and think about what you are doing.

All you should care about is EV. Not what any opponent thinks of your play.

EDIT: As for your 88 hand, that one depends on how many players in the pot. When set-mining, you want at least 10 to 1 implied odds, which means there needs to be 30 small bets in the pot at the end of the hand to justify calling 3 bets over and above the big blind. If it's massively multiway, that's easy to get to; on the other hand, if there's a raise, a 3-bet, and a cap, and everyone else folds, and the players are tight (i.e., there's little likelihood your 88 is actually the best and), it's going to be tough to get to 30 and it can be a fold.

Thanks, this makes sense. I am thinking in a pretty loose aggressive game that if I call with 4 people in and hit my set, I will be getting those 30 sbs needed to make it profitable.

I also may have written the original hand wrong, it was 4 bets total (capped) at FW.

Remember: people are idiots and old dudes are likely angry nits.

Don't ever worry them talking trash about how you play. They're bad for a reason.

Let's be clear that this guy is a jerk. He's trying to establish his dominance over you and/or the table. It is a bit more likely to happen as a female player, though the "I'm smarter than you, so I'll explain poker" thing is fairly common. A few points

• This is one of the smallest games at the casino, so the chances his advice is terrible is near 100%
• The fact that he's giving advice makes the chances he's wrong even higher -- good players just smile when bad play happens
• These facts don't make it any more fun

Your idea of moving is great. You can try to defuse the situation, if that fits your personality/ideas of fun. "Am I going to have to pay for these lessons?" Follow that with "If these are paid lessons, how can I get a refund?" Maybe the self-deprecating "If I'm so dumb, how do you expect me to remember what you're teaching?" Slightly more insulting, maybe "when will your 20/40 seat open up so we can get back to having fun?" There's always "I'm here to gamble sir, somebody said this was a casino and that was allowed." In California, the universal answer is "no gamble no future." I'm sure there are better ones, as joking/giving people a hard time can shut them up. You're there to have fun. Some overbearing jerk ruins it. You can always ask the floor for help.
I disagree with this as a fix. Nobody is making "most money" in a small stakes game, other than the rake. If you're serious about poker, sure you can try to maximize. Poker can actually be fun. The fact that the villain could be maximizing better doesn't help me that much, if he's making my time miserable.

Chances are your medium PP was fine to call, or at least close to fine in a multiway pot. Also no gamble, no future. As other people said, you get somewhere like 8 or 10 to 1 on your 3sb investment, you did OK. 5+ players in the hand and you'll get there. 7+ players and it is an easy call.

I like the replies, especially "when will your 20/40 seat open up so we can get back to having fun?"

I actually can have quite a bit of fun with the jerks at the table. I am able to pull off saying ridiculous things while seeming quite sincere. It drives them nuts.

I go mainly to have fun and unwind, and if I win or lose I am okay. Of course I would prefer winning, and am trying to learn to play better. I am not the worst player or best (by far) at the table.

The older man critiquing my play asked how I could call a raise with 78s after I beat him with a straight. I replied "it was easy, I am in my lucky seat".

Also, a similar guy from a previous trip gets super pissed when my ace king beats his aces (flopped a king, rivered another). He goes on and on about it for about two orbits when I decide to explain my play. I let him know that I was lucky to win the coin flip. He freaks out saying aces vs ace king isn't a coin flip. I told him there were only two of us in the pot, so it was 50/50 which made it a coin flip.

I then gave him a look as though I had an epiphany, and told him actually I was the favorite. He was getting more and more agitated, and asks me to explain how I could be the favorite there. I told him because I only needed 3 cards to make a straight while he needed 4.

I only do it to the rude guys, but it is fun and seems to really get them worked up.

My absolute favorite happened a couple of months ago. I was running good and getting very lucky, and the table coach kept pointing out my mistakes. I got lucky in a very big pot with 9/10s and he berated me, asking how I could call a raise preflop with 10 high. Then closed it with, keep playing that way, I could use the money.

I replied back I know I am getting very lucky and running good. It really doesn't seem fair that someone who plays as well as you do always loses.

Again, I say it in a very sincere way, as though I actually felt badly for him.

It makes me

You're already winning at life, then.

Make a note that the guy with QQ can turn a showdown hand into a bluff, and you're golden.

Noted, thanks

I wouldn't be so sure that guy was bluffing. Although now saying the preflop action was presented incorrectly in the OP confuses the issue quite a bit.

I am actually legitimately confused here. It was 4 bets preflop.

4/8 live

folds around to mp raise (1st bet)

I am in the cutoff and reraise with pocket kings (I think table perceives me as loose aggressive) (2nd bet)

fold to sb who calls (calls including additional bet)
bb also calls (calls additional bet)

mp reraises (solid and aggressive player), (3rd bet)

I cap (4th bet)

both blinds call (additional 2 bets)

Is this wrong?

I don't see the PF action was wrong in the OP. Did I miss it? Amber capped PF, bet flop, and was donked into on the turn, right?

Both the OP and this new post show 4 raises preflop. Even though the restatement mistakenly counts it as 4 bets, he says he and the guy with QQ raised it twice each. 4 raises plus the BB would be 5 bets, which I don't think are allowed at Foxwoods. I could be wrong about Foxwoods rules, but he didn't say that.

I am still confused. 4 bets are the cap at FW, and that is what we put in isn't it? The bb was in for 1 and called 3.

She btw, I am female.

Sorry about the mistaken gender assumption.

But your posts are unclear. You keep talking about 4 bets, but you describe 4 RAISES. That is the BB (1), MP raise (2), hero raise (3), MP raise again (4), hero raise again (5). The BB would have had to call 4 more; 2, and then another 2. Total of 5 bets.

That would be allowed in Las Vegas and a few other rooms, but in most places the cap is 4 bets, or a bet and 3 raises. I don't know what the cap is at Foxwoods, but you say it is a 4 bet cap, which I would have guessed was true.

I see, I worded it wrong. 4 bets total, not raises. Thanks for clarifying.

But now we still don't know what the actual preflop action was, as both of your descriptions show 4 raises.

The FIRST raiser is always putting TWO bets in the pot. A 4 BET cap means only 3 raises are allowed.